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Old 10-03-2015, 05:57   #16
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

I wish there was a data base of failures so we had some facts to go on. You are right that if the mast comes down having a replacement stay is moot. But if the mast doesn't fail then a replacement stay is a handy thing. Discontinuous rigging isn't my cup of tea whether wire or rod.

Some myths in this thread. Rod can be rolled up and shipped by surface truck. The roll will be a little bigger than wire but not a lot and it will weigh significantly less. Rod can be inspected with a Magna Flux kit but the rig has to come out to do it right. Rod can be reheaded 90% of the time. Sometimes reheading doesn't work.

These days (i.e. last couple of years) I hear some complaining about wire prematurely rusting. It seems to be a quality control issue. I know a couple cruisers who rerigged with wire and a year later had barber pole rusty wire. One or two surface strands were discolored but the rest looked new.

Obviously I have an interest in Valiants so I try to learn about rod failures. I know of two Valiant rig failures. One was in the back stay insulator. Another was due to failure of a chain plate. Both of these were without warning as most rig failures are. I don't think that indicates a huge problem with rod rigging.
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Old 10-03-2015, 09:33   #17
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
I wish there was a data base of failures so we had some facts to go on. You are right that if the mast comes down having a replacement stay is moot. But if the mast doesn't fail then a replacement stay is a handy thing. Discontinuous rigging isn't my cup of tea whether wire or rod.

Some myths in this thread. Rod can be rolled up and shipped by surface truck. The roll will be a little bigger than wire but not a lot and it will weigh significantly less. Rod can be inspected with a Magna Flux kit but the rig has to come out to do it right. Rod can be reheaded 90% of the time. Sometimes reheading doesn't work.

These days (i.e. last couple of years) I hear some complaining about wire prematurely rusting. It seems to be a quality control issue. I know a couple cruisers who rerigged with wire and a year later had barber pole rusty wire. One or two surface strands were discolored but the rest looked new.

Obviously I have an interest in Valiants so I try to learn about rod failures. I know of two Valiant rig failures. One was in the back stay insulator. Another was due to failure of a chain plate. Both of these were without warning as most rig failures are. I don't think that indicates a huge problem with rod rigging.
Nothing wrong with rod, regarding failures, it happen, but no database i guess, we change few rod rigging for wire , customers choice, and we found some cold heads micro cracked and 2 bronze thread cones cracked as well but like wire swages ,, Premature rusted wire is a fact, just take a look for example a Brand new Lagoon with few weeks at sea , good quality wire is there as well as crapy junk , and like you ask about failures in rod, ok, i own in the past a C&C 40, rod rigged , i sold the boat in 89 to a Young couple ,old rod rigging and i explain to this guys to take a independent rigging survey but they refuse , 8 months later they dismast the boat and i got a headhache , they try to claim to me the damage... Cheers..
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:02   #18
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

Why is rod commonly used for bowsprit stays?
Aesthetics?
Because a slight bump against anything is permanent verses wire.
Is there a technical benefit?
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:14   #19
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Why is rod commonly used for bowsprit stays?
Aesthetics?
Because a slight bump against anything is permanent verses wire.
Is there a technical benefit?
Better strength to diameter, less stretch, and better longevity when subjected to continual dousing I suspect.
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:30   #20
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Why is rod commonly used for bowsprit stays?

Aesthetics?

Because a slight bump against anything is permanent verses wire.

Is there a technical benefit?

Less corrosion and stretch. The heads need to be inspected every few years. Magna Flux is one way to inspect.
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:54   #21
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

Ahhhh, yes of course, submersion. I missed that.
In this location inspecting the heads isn't as difficult as aloft, seems a good choice here.
Even supersized it could be worth the extra bucks.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:20   #22
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

I keep reading different articles about synthetic pre-stretched heat treated dyneema. Getting close to the same price as wire and you can carry a enough to re-rig the entire boat on a spool. That and the fittings are good for life. Strength is far superior to SS and so is stretch. All that and even a novice like me can manage the necessary splices. Also it's easy to spot problem areas when it starts to fray. There are more than a few cruising folks using them and some have over 5 years on them. There have been several test articles about the strength over longer time duration and from what I've read it sounds like a very good option and its only getting better. Seems kind of hard to beat.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:21   #23
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Ahhhh, yes of course, submersion. I missed that.
In this location inspecting the heads isn't as difficult as aloft, seems a good choice here.
Even supersized it could be worth the extra bucks.
Yea but nice big hunk of galvanized chain looks way saltier!
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Old 10-03-2015, 20:12   #24
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

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...for peace of mind is good to have the 40.000 miles shorted , ...
To be fair they say 40000nm for an inspection...or 10 years, what comes first and then they counsel to change everything (all fittings) but the rod himself. 10 years sounds reasonable to me even if I am going to fully inspect my rod rigging next year, when the boat will be 9 years old.
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Old 10-03-2015, 20:32   #25
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Re: Rod Or Wire Rigging?

Not all Valiant 40's were rod BTW. Mine, the 19th made, has always been oversized wire. Rerigged in O9 with the best stuff I could find. No rust anywhere. I have not trusted dymena yet, but I do have a roll for emergencies.
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