Respirator for grinding fiberglass

[Saltyhog]

I've been doing a lot of grinding of glass under my cockpit and in the bilge. I've been wearing a standard dual cartridge P100 respirator for this work and it's been fine as far as breathing goes, but does not provide any eye protection from the glass dust in the air. I've tried goggles, but they and my glasses soon fog up. All the goggles have vent holes, so they don't really seal out the dust anyway. I'd get a full face, but I think it will just fog up. I was wondering what other folks used. I'm thinking about getting this: Breathecool II Supplied Air Respirator System w/fullface mask
Seems like a good price for what it is and it would work for paint work as well. Any opinions?

[Ram]

try using swimmers goggles they will work well

[minaret]

I am a daily grinder of many years standing. I have used most systems out there at one point or another. There are many factors to consider. I still use a regular fullface for most of my grinding. The reason is that forced air hoods are too large to work inside a boat, and even outside they are a PITA because they are always hitting the hull and keeping me from putting my face where I want it. Other forced air systems without a hood are very expensive and finicky, requiring constant cleaning and maintenance. Most of these systems are actually adapted from firefighting equipment and wont stand up to that level of dust without problems. Hence the good old full face. If you use a good quality one properly you won't have problems with fogging. As someone who battled fogging by every means possible for years, I can tell you that facial hair is the usual problem in this area. Guys with ANY facial hair will have a problem with seals. I know guys who shave daily and put Vaseline on their seals before suiting up to acheive a perfect respirator and stay alive in a world of constant grinding. I myself have a full beard however, and have spent many years carefully being "sick" on OSHA respirator fit days so I don't have to shave for work. I have my own methods of acheiving a good seal this way, but OSHA don't agree. I do pass the hood test though, and I don't have problems with fogging.
So what I guess I'm saying here is, forget the forced air systems and buy a good quality fullface. If you have problems with fogging check all flapper valves and make sure you are shaved clean. It's the best way to go and I live like this for many hours a week.
I feel bad for you grinding in an enclosed space without a fullface-it's dangerous. And very uncomfortable. I tape my Tyvek hood to my fullface with duct all the way around. I wear Xtratuffs and tape my ankle and wrist cuffs as well. After a long grind they cut me out of my suit. I have zero itch as a result, I'm very careful about it. My wife got tired of me bringing the itch home years ago. If you ever spend much time grinding carbon fiber, you'll understand.

[Danosimp3]

I've been grinding every day for nearly 7 months now. I've found that an old M-17 gasmask works very well for me. New ones can be found on ebay for around $20. It has eye protection and is full face. I also wear a tyvek suit. I hate fiberglass dust, so this system keeps me pretty clean. I've never had a fog issue with the mask either.

New Czech Military Surplus Survival Riot Revolution Gas Mask + Filter + Bag | eBay

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Danosimp3

I've been grinding every day for nearly 7 months now. I've found that an old M-17 gasmask works very well for me. New ones can be found on ebay for around $20. It has eye protection and is full face. I also wear a tyvek suit. I hate fiberglass dust, so this system keeps me pretty clean. I've never had a fog issue with the mask either.

New Czech Military Surplus Survival Riot Revolution Gas Mask + Filter + Bag | eBay

How do you get replacement filters and prefilters? Does it even have prefilters? Are the cartridges easy to acquire? Are they acid gas cartridges or just activated carbon? I replace prefilters daily and cartridges weekly. What you are doing is unsafe. Don't give up your health to save a few bucks, its foolish. A good fullface costs $150 new. Your lungs cost much more.

[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by minaret

...So what I guess I'm saying here is, forget the forced air systems and buy a good quality fullface. If you have problems with fogging check all flapper valves and make sure you are shaved clean. It's the best way to go and I live like this for many hours a week.
I feel bad for you grinding in an enclosed space without a fullface-it's dangerous. And very uncomfortable. I tape my Tyvek hood to my fullface with duct all the way around. I wear Xtratuffs and tape my ankle and wrist cuffs as well. After a long grind they cut me out of my suit. I have zero itch as a result, I'm very careful about it. My wife got tired of me bringing the itch home years ago. If you ever spend much time grinding carbon fiber, you'll understand.

Thanks Minaret! Do you have a recommendation for a good full face? I'm a clean shaven kinda guy anyhow, so that's not the problem. I just sweat a lot and the humidity seems to cause the fog. I'd rather not deal with the forced air if I can help it. How does this look Amazon.com: 3M 1840701 Cartridge & Airline Full-Facepiece Respirator Full Facepiece, M: Industrial & Scientific
That will take the same filters and cartridges as the half mask I already have. Also, will something like this (using organic vapor carts) be okay for painting (brushing) two part lpu's or interprotect 2000e? When I'm done in the bilge and under the cockpit, I plan to paint it all with interprotect 2000e. Enclosed space painting scares me a bit. I can use lots of fans but I'm wondering if the carts are up to the task. Thanks again. -Tom

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Thanks Minaret! Do you have a recommendation for a good full face? I'm a clean shaven kinda guy anyhow, so that's not the problem. I just sweat a lot and the humidity seems to cause the fog. I'd rather not deal with the forced air if I can help it. How does this look Amazon.com: 3M 1840701 Cartridge & Airline Full-Facepiece Respirator Full Facepiece, M: Industrial & Scientific
That will take the same filters and cartridges as the half mask I already have. Also, will something like this (using organic vapor carts) be okay for painting (brushing) two part lpu's or interprotect 2000e? When I'm done in the bilge and under the cockpit, I plan to paint it all with interprotect 2000e. Enclosed space painting scares me a bit. I can use lots of fans but I'm wondering if the carts are up to the task. Thanks again. -Tom

Thats the low end fullface we give new guys when they start out and we haven't decided yet if we are keeping them. It does OK but doesn't have enough straps for a good seal all around. Construction is a little light in general too. It does use all the same cartridges and flapper valves though (all 3M products do). If you don't have too much grinding to do it's fine. For a long haul step up to the good model. Thats the 6000 series- you want the 7800 series for hard use. Or you can spoil yourself with the newer silicone cushy fit models. I like the 7800 best, I've put in thousands of hours in one. They keep me alive. The increased FOV of the newer models involves compromises IMHO. The milsurp models generally come with filters that aren't even vacuum sealed and have no replacemennts. Filters have a very short life span and that clock starts ticking the moment they are exposed to air. They are worse than useless and it should be illegal to sell them without disclaimers (they probably do have some fine print somewhere).

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...0Schematic.pdf

Fisheries - Product Detail

[TeddyDiver]

Dunno about the availability worlwide but Scott proflow sc does the job.. A bit pricey (around 800e) but the best IMO

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Thanks Minaret! Do you have a recommendation for a good full face? I'm a clean shaven kinda guy anyhow, so that's not the problem. I just sweat a lot and the humidity seems to cause the fog. I'd rather not deal with the forced air if I can help it. How does this look Amazon.com: 3M 1840701 Cartridge & Airline Full-Facepiece Respirator Full Facepiece, M: Industrial & Scientific
That will take the same filters and cartridges as the half mask I already have. Also, will something like this (using organic vapor carts) be okay for painting (brushing) two part lpu's or interprotect 2000e? When I'm done in the bilge and under the cockpit, I plan to paint it all with interprotect 2000e. Enclosed space painting scares me a bit. I can use lots of fans but I'm wondering if the carts are up to the task. Thanks again. -Tom

Forgot to add- it will handle 2000 just fine with o-vap cartridges. But don't wear a new fullface for that, you'll ruin it. I have one I keep in like new condition and use only for grinding. I also keep a beater with a bunch of mylar pull offs on the faceplate which I use only for laminating or coating in spaces so small the vapor will make your eyes burn without a fullface. When you get too much resin and paint on the faceplate you just peel a layer of mylar and keep going. I usually stack em 20 thick. I think they only make mylar stickies for the 7800- they are awesome. Great idea doing 2000 in the bilge.

[Beersmith]

I used this during my rebuild, TONS of fiberglass grinding and I feel safe in it:

Amazon.com: 3M 1840701 Cartridge & Airline Full-Facepiece Respirator Full Facepiece, M: Industrial & Scientific

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Thanks Minaret! Do you have a recommendation for a good full face? I'm a clean shaven kinda guy anyhow, so that's not the problem. I just sweat a lot and the humidity seems to cause the fog. I'd rather not deal with the forced air if I can help it. How does this look Amazon.com: 3M 1840701 Cartridge & Airline Full-Facepiece Respirator Full Facepiece, M: Industrial & Scientific
That will take the same filters and cartridges as the half mask I already have. Also, will something like this (using organic vapor carts) be okay for painting (brushing) two part lpu's or interprotect 2000e? When I'm done in the bilge and under the cockpit, I plan to paint it all with interprotect 2000e. Enclosed space painting scares me a bit. I can use lots of fans but I'm wondering if the carts are up to the task. Thanks again. -Tom

Hey Tom was just looking at this again and I noticed your concerns about vapors in an enclosed space. I just thought I'd mention that fans can be very dangerous as many are a great ignition source-I have seen it happen. I use cheap plastic ducting from Visqueen to run a duct from the fan into the boat where I need it, thus preventing ignition. It works great. If you like your eyebrows you should consider something similar. 2000 is really volatile stuff and will be super nasty in an enlcosed space.

[donradcliffe]

Minaret, what breathing protection do you recommend for spraying Awlgrip? It makes my liver quiver much worse than 2000. I remember my paint crew in Thailand taking the day off to go to the funeral of their shooter--liver cancer got him at age 30.

[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by minaret

Hey Tom was just looking at this again and I noticed your concerns about vapors in an enclosed space. I just thought I'd mention that fans can be very dangerous as many are a great ignition source-I have seen it happen. I use cheap plastic ducting from Visqueen to run a duct from the fan into the boat where I need it, thus preventing ignition. It works great. If you like your eyebrows you should consider something similar. 2000 is really volatile stuff and will be super nasty in an enlcosed space.

Thanks Minaret! I had not thought of that but you're right. I'll look into the duct. As to the mask, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a 7800 per your rec. Unfortunately, it's going to have to be both the "beater" and the "nice" mask, cuz I'm only buying 1! Is there a size (S, M, or L) that fits most guys? I'm 6' avg. build. I don't think I can easily get it local to determine fit, so I was going to take a chance and order a medium.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Minaret, what breathing protection do you recommend for spraying Awlgrip? It makes my liver quiver much worse than 2000. I remember my paint crew in Thailand taking the day off to go to the funeral of their shooter--liver cancer got him at age 30.

The same, regular organic vapor carts. You can step up to acid gas if it makes you feel better but it doesn't make any difference. The key for spraying is proper prefiltering, you want the pink HEPA filters for that. I use them for grinding a lot too, with no cartridge. They will lock right into the bayonet lugs. They're great because they intake air from both sides. The increased surface area means easier breathing and a longer period before the overspray makes them useless. Please stay off the liver cancer comments, it makes me nervous. Trading your health for a paycheck sucks! I'm already epoxy sensitized. Makes me remember the old days when we used to bathe in raw acetone at the end of the day every day. I'm trying to live in denial here...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Saltyhog

Thanks Minaret! I had not thought of that but you're right. I'll look into the duct. As to the mask, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a 7800 per your rec. Unfortunately, it's going to have to be both the "beater" and the "nice" mask, cuz I'm only buying 1! Is there a size (S, M, or L) that fits most guys? I'm 6' avg. build. I don't think I can easily get it local to determine fit, so I was going to take a chance and order a medium.

When you order your 7800 (good call it is the best despite the decreased field of view) also order a box of the mylar peelies if you can. They will keep it looking brand new. I'm kinda anal about a scratch-free clear faceplate because I do high-end work and I need to see if I'm gonna make it perfect. The mylar works great. All the other guys in the shop have thrashed fullfaces but mine always looks brand new. I wash it daily, taking out all flapper valves each time. This wears the flappers out quicker but they are super cheap (order some of them too) and dirty valves are the most common cause of fogging and leakage outside of facial hair. I pop out the whole valve body and wash it in hot soapy water. Some of the guys fullfaces smell like someone pissed in them and are just scary nasty after a lot of daily use without proper maintenance. I have to crack the whip sometimes. When the Boss needs a fullface for a quick looksee he always steals mine, and then I get a new one! Because I don't share, that's like sharing someones underwear to me...
Size is really important. The large tends to be pretty big, most use a medium for proper fit. Though all the amateurs buy larges without a hood test. If it's too small it will be really uncomfortable though. Too big and you'll get a headache overstrapping it trying to acheive a proper seal. It really depends on how big your head/face is. Some really small guys still have a big head. Trial and error is the only way. Go to a local fire safety supply. You will find they do fit tests for cheap or free. If you can't find a local supplier for the 7800, fit test any 3M respirator and stick with that size when you order. Good luck and happy grinding!