Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2016, 13:26   #61
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,087
Images: 52
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
Im very pleased how the coosa and corebond came out. Deck is already very strong and i am yet to start the top skin.


Yup, that won't rot again, ever. Nice permanent repair.
__________________

__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 07:13   #62
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: Tayana FD-12
Posts: 588
Images: 6
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
You need to keep things in perspective. Why did the balsa rot? Because the deck hardware was not properly bedded. How long did it last even without properly bedded hardware? How long do you expect to keep the boat? So, what if you get a fancy (and very expensive) coring material and water gets in ... you will still have water in the sandwich, it just won't rot said fancy (and very expensive) coring material. Don't waste $$. Use balsa again, but do it right this time. Btw, I re-cored my entire deck and so have some experience with this!
You wont have wet decks where coosa is the core. because core is closed cell foam impregnated with woven roving and does not retain water. What you're saying is true, if you get rid of the root cause, balsa will stay dry. But it gets more complicated. Boat design and how you use it as well as latitude has a lot to do with the root cause. Water and ice will eventually win, especially if you are in northern climates and do not shrinkwrap every year. And balsa is like a sponge, it holds water and rots.
In terms of my boat, many aspects of the design were contributing to the root cause. I had no deck drains and toerail makes a nice dam so water accumulates. All this makes the problem that much more difficult to deal with. I Re-beded all deck hardware back in 2004. Also I re-bed genoa track and windows on a regular basis, 2009, 2012, etc.. So in my experience, water will get in. And i live on the boat 6 months out of the year so I see things on a daily basis. Imagine if I was a typical owner that goes on the boat once per week or once per month. So yes you can re-core with balsa but batter make sure (1) boat design is sound so that design flaws are not contributing to water ingress, (2) stay away from winters like we have here in NE. For instance rain/sleet in the afternoon then by midnight its 0F. Also, make sure you chase down every gelcoat crack, 'cause they will let water in as well, and same cracks will get worse at 0F. Or just re-core with something not susceptible to water ingress so there is no where for water to accumulate. That amount of coosa, 13'x1' area is about 100$. Now that i've worked with it, I'll spend that especially if i'm spending 100s of hours in labor.
__________________

__________________
phorvati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 07:33   #63
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,087
Images: 52
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Exactly. Most boat work 90% of the cost is labor. So use the very best materials.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 19:41   #64
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 950
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Exactly. Most boat work 90% of the cost is labor. So use the very best materials.

Hmm. Any boat building companies hear this?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 20:01   #65
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,087
Images: 52
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
You wont have wet decks where coosa is the core. because core is closed cell foam impregnated with woven roving and does not retain water. What you're saying is true, if you get rid of the root cause, balsa will stay dry. But it gets more complicated. Boat design and how you use it as well as latitude has a lot to do with the root cause. Water and ice will eventually win, especially if you are in northern climates and do not shrinkwrap every year. And balsa is like a sponge, it holds water and rots.
In terms of my boat, many aspects of the design were contributing to the root cause. I had no deck drains and toerail makes a nice dam so water accumulates. All this makes the problem that much more difficult to deal with. I Re-beded all deck hardware back in 2004. Also I re-bed genoa track and windows on a regular basis, 2009, 2012, etc.. So in my experience, water will get in. And i live on the boat 6 months out of the year so I see things on a daily basis. Imagine if I was a typical owner that goes on the boat once per week or once per month. So yes you can re-core with balsa but batter make sure (1) boat design is sound so that design flaws are not contributing to water ingress, (2) stay away from winters like we have here in NE. For instance rain/sleet in the afternoon then by midnight its 0F. Also, make sure you chase down every gelcoat crack, 'cause they will let water in as well, and same cracks will get worse at 0F. Or just re-core with something not susceptible to water ingress so there is no where for water to accumulate. That amount of coosa, 13'x1' area is about 100$. Now that i've worked with it, I'll spend that especially if i'm spending 100s of hours in labor.



How did you like working with Corebond? Did you get the BPO hardener or did they tell you to use MEKP?
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2016, 05:28   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: Tayana FD-12
Posts: 588
Images: 6
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Hmm. Any boat building companies hear this?
I feel that boat building is different from repair. On a production boat in a factory, I can see how they try to save money on materials cause everything is streamlined. Doing repairs on your own boat, is all about labor hours. Especially if you have no time, or dont want to do it again in your lifetime.

I used MEK. Like I said, coosa is great. I was able to get in two plys of 1708 biaxial last night. Rolling out and wetting 4 plys is a job for more experienced or at least those with helpers. Getting two of them was challenging enough. peelply helped a lot.
__________________
phorvati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 19:58   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 27
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Some photos of the final deck prep (forgot to take photos of the hours of fairing and longboard sanding that preceded it) which involved spraying gelcoat under the stanchions and across the deck to the cabin top, then masking everything for the KiwiGrip. Got the deck sections done yesterday, and finished up the foredeck today!







__________________
Scott Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 22:09   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Alaska
Boat: Truant Triad 37 Cutter
Posts: 329
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Great looking work Scott.

Did you ever live in Brookfield? I went to school there with someone who had your name.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
seahag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 03:41   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 27
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by seahag View Post
Great looking work Scott.

Did you ever live in Brookfield? I went to school there with someone who had your name.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Yes I did - but I don't recall a Seahag?
__________________
Scott Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 09:31   #70
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,823
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Hmm. Any boat building companies hear this?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Sure they have, but how much more for a boat do you want to pay? Bob Perry mentioned that his new 44' carbon full keel cruiser costs about $50,000 more being built in carbon fiber/epoxy than if the boat was built in glass. For that extra you get a substantially better boat, but so what, most Beneteaus simply can't justify the extra cost.

Once mainline builders start installing proper sized winches instead of using ones that are too small to shave $500 off the cost of the boats then we can talk about using the best materials. But boat buyers are cheap and don't want to spend even that little bit extra.

Cast iron keels are just stupid, but they save thousands over using lead. But try to convince all those iron keel owners that...
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 10:46   #71
Registered User
 
SV.Maverick's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Seabrook, TX
Boat: Gulfstar 50
Posts: 277
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Speaking of core that would never rot how about starboard?
__________________
SV.Maverick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 11:08   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 18,463
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Starboard doesn't bond well and is very heavy.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2016, 20:20   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Boat: possible Union 36 Rehab
Posts: 59
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
I feel that boat building is different from repair. On a production boat in a factory, I can see how they try to save money on materials cause everything is streamlined. Doing repairs on your own boat, is all about labor hours. Especially if you have no time, or dont want to do it again in your lifetime.

I used MEK. Like I said, coosa is great. I was able to get in two plys of 1708 biaxial last night. Rolling out and wetting 4 plys is a job for more experienced or at least those with helpers. Getting two of them was challenging enough. peelply helped a lot.

Meant MEKP, right?
__________________
BigSmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2016, 03:58   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: Tayana FD-12
Posts: 588
Images: 6
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

It's the hardener for polyester. There is a P in there for peroxide. I realized I never shared the after photo. Spring and summer just took off on me. It's so short up here in NE. I had some hard sails to wind with 150% genoa all along this track. So far no signs of any flex or cracking
__________________
phorvati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2016, 04:00   #75
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rhode Island
Boat: Tayana FD-12
Posts: 588
Images: 6
Re: Replacing wet balsa core

It's a bit dewi this morning.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1472209189320.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	130099  
__________________

__________________
phorvati is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
core

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using Epoxy for wet balsa core sustutt Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 04-02-2014 16:30
To balsa core or not to balsa core? fbchristo Multihull Sailboats 135 04-02-2009 14:13
different core types (foam pvc, divinicell vs balsa) schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 56 22-07-2008 09:56


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.