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Old 12-08-2014, 20:50   #46
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

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Originally Posted by Glenn.Brooks View Post
Hi Kurt, $60 is a very good price! Iam in the Seattle area and both epoxy and FG are much more expensive. West epoxy quotes something like $250 gal for base and $150 gal for catalyst. Hi grade FG is around $60-$70 gal also.

When I recored decks and cockpit on my alberg 30 I had two concerns with epoxy (aside from cost). First was epoxy bounds well with FG structure, but Fiberglas does not adhere adequately to epoxy. So if you do an epoxy repair, one can not latter go back and overlap FG mat and roving over the epoxy. So if you have an adjacent repair job of some sort, must use epoxy and hope that it will properly penetrate and layup mat and roving - which many epoxies won't do. Hence my second concern - standard industrial grade epoxy is not viscous enough to properly wet out mat and roving, hence one gets white streaks and occasional dry patches within the layup. White streaks are fiberglass strands that have no resin embedded and the dry patches are larger areas with no resin. This causes structural weaknesses and also are pockets of possible water retention. Finally, on the flip side, fiberglass resin is superbly engineered to work with mat and roving and is ideally suited for repairing existing areas. So for me, after several failed goes at mixing epoxy and cloth, I finally decided - hey FG is superb, why use epoxy?

Also, I almost never use filler, unless Iam bedding foam core. Filler has very little lateral strength and is subject to cracking when the deck flexes. As an analogy, think of what happens to the thin layer of epoxy or glass that coats the inside of a plastic mixing bucket. Flex it and it cracks and breaks. So I always lay resin, mat and roving to build up surfaces. The combination has massive strength in shear, compression and bending and won't let you down when finished.

Anyway, just my 2cents worth. Hate to see you go through a huge project only to maybe find it needs to be redone because of flexing and possible material failure.


Glen, next time you need supplies PM me. I pay $400 for the five gallon kit of WEST, and $85 for a five gallon bucket of high end poly iso resin. I'd be happy to take you shopping.
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Old 13-08-2014, 13:45   #47
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

The rain stopped this morning so during lunch I was able to start removing a section of non-skid on the port side. This was the fastest removal so far as the sheet non-skid was glued directly to the bare fiberglass deck. I plan to work my way back to the sugar scoop area where I have already started so I have plenty of area to work with for the next few days. I still need to remove the stanchion bases, drill out the holes, and then fill with thickened epoxy but there it time to do that.

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Old 13-08-2014, 14:07   #48
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

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Originally Posted by trashpad View Post
The rain stopped this morning so during lunch I was able to start removing a section of non-skid on the port side. This was the fastest removal so far as the sheet non-skid was glued directly to the bare fiberglass deck. I plan to work my way back to the sugar scoop area where I have already started so I have plenty of area to work with for the next few days. I still need to remove the stanchion bases, drill out the holes, and then fill with thickened epoxy but there it time to do that.

Kurt


I'd suggest removing stanchion bases and other hardware sooner, rather than later. As well as protecting those windows somehow, and any other masking which may prevent scratches/damage during your heavy work phase.
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Old 13-08-2014, 20:34   #49
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

That is the quiet work I have planned for the morning when the neighbors are still sleeping. It looks like the stanchions are bolted down with three machine screws but there is not a backing plate on the inside. It looks like they inserted a wood block and not the foam core and the nuts are inside it.

The new cast acrylic is already on order to replace the windows but I do need to cover the hatches.



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Old 15-08-2014, 21:51   #50
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

I had a good few days and was able to the non-skid all the way down the lower port side up almost to the bow. This included a section that the PO had tried to repair. He removed most of the non-skid and then just used filler to top it off. What a pain. I then was able to apply a thin coat of 407 to start to fair up the big stuff. Tomorrow morning I will sand it smooth and hope it is ready for the cloth layer. I think I will have to do one more coat of fairing though.They are calling for several days of rain starting Sunday so I would like to get this sealed up. I never noticed before but the port stanchions had the base plate hidden inside the deck. Not to crazy about that so I plan to drill out the holes to about 1/2" and fill with epoxy, then drill the correct size, and then make some SS backing plates.

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Old 19-08-2014, 18:29   #51
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

I have a new saying that I keep mumbling, Smaller Sections. Working on the back deck, admiral deck, and down the lower port deck was a bunch of work. I was able to fair it up, apply the cloth coat, and a thin layer of 407 the last few days. A light sanding tomorrow morning and I hope to primer it. Will post some photos later when I get to my computer.

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Old 19-08-2014, 21:47   #52
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

So here is from the sugar scoop looking forward. I had just scrubbed it down. Not to bad and I will hit it with 220 in the AM and hope I don't find any holidays. After that some primer and move on. The next section will be smaller. I just remembered I have to still drill out the stanchion mounting holes and fill with thicken epoxy too. The builder had hidden the backing plates inside the deck along with the nuts. two of the nuts must have pulled out and the PO just drilled through and backed a longer screw with a washer. Add it to the list.

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Old 19-08-2014, 21:53   #53
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

That big flat deck just screams for a Mud Hog and air file. Again, hope you're not planning on starting with 220.
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Old 20-08-2014, 06:26   #54
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

It is not the deck screaming but my arms and back. I did start with 100 to knock down some of the ridges and will go back over it with 220 during lunch. there are a few spots that gummed a bit when sanding so I need to take another look. I think I am going to use the 407 for the high build spots and pick up some premix fairing compound for the last coat.

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Old 20-08-2014, 07:24   #55
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

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Originally Posted by trashpad View Post
It is not the deck screaming but my arms and back. I did start with 100 to knock down some of the ridges and will go back over it with 220 during lunch. there are a few spots that gummed a bit when sanding so I need to take another look. I think I am going to use the 407 for the high build spots and pick up some premix fairing compound for the last coat.

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Get a mud hog and enough air to push it (about 9 CFM minimum) and your arms and back will scream much less.
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Old 20-08-2014, 07:37   #56
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Re: Replacing the Nonskid on a F-44

trashpad, listen to minaret. It's only money. Your time and your physical health are far more valuable, and using an air file, Rodac, or whatever it's called in your part of the world, is the smart bet for fast fairing and a beautiful job.

For my part, I just completed stripping all the nonskid from my port side, have successfully installed my fancy RIB roller launch/retrieval system, and am pulling all my stanchions and pulpits prior to priming for new waterways and non-skid. I'll send pics when I get some paint back on. Now, everything looks like a war zone. Thank goodness for the Fesstool sander. This would be impossible to do at the dock without it.
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Old 20-08-2014, 08:04   #57
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

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Originally Posted by trashpad View Post
It is not the deck screaming but my arms and back. I did start with 100 to knock down some of the ridges and will go back over it with 220 during lunch. there are a few spots that gummed a bit when sanding so I need to take another look. I think I am going to use the 407 for the high build spots and pick up some premix fairing compound for the last coat.

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I would make it fair in 60 or 80 grit, depending on how close it is, and then work up to 220. Starting with 80 makes it much faster to work up, 60 scratches are a bitch to remove. Starting with 100-maybe if your fills are already almost perfect. Which is highly unlikely given the surface area. You'll figure it out when you start fairing, some of this stuff can't be explained and must be learned the hard way. Skipping from 100 straight to 220 won't work, you'll never get the 100 scratches out without doing 120-150-180-220. And, I'd recommend sticking with a single product for fairing. Switching to a pre mix is definitely switching horses midstream.
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Old 20-08-2014, 08:54   #58
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Re: Replacing the Nonskid on a F-44

Fiberglass is the cloth. The resin is either polyester, vinylester or epoxy. The Fiberglass cloth and the resin. Work together to form a laminate .....


...
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Old 20-08-2014, 09:59   #59
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Re: Replacing the Nonskid on a F-44

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Fiberglass is the cloth. The resin is either polyester, vinylester or epoxy. The Fiberglass cloth and the resin. Work together to form a laminate .....


...
I agree fully and have tried to use the terms correctly. With this project I am using epoxy, 2.5 oz fiberglass cloth, 407 filler, and a two part epoxy primmer.


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Old 20-08-2014, 10:02   #60
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Re: Replacing the nonskid on a F-44

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I'd recommend sticking with a single product for fairing. Switching to a pre mix is definitely switching horses midstream.

Hello,

I have had success with the epoxy\407 mix when I was using thicker layers but it looks like the thinner coat just does not set as fast. I thought I would use the 407 on the thicker fairing below the cloth and then a thin coat of a premix on top of the cloth for the final smooth coat.


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