Replacing the Nonskid on a F-44

[trashpad]

Here are some photos of the primer.

[Roy M]

What are you considering for your topcoat? Given all the hard work you've done, I really hope you will be using a top-quality linear polyurethane and not a one-part enamel or an epoxy paint. Once every ten years or so is enough for me.

[trashpad]

That is open for discussion. Except for one wooden power boat and this one all my boats were gel coat. Since most of the deck will be covered in nonskid I was planning to use the best option for the rest. What ever that is I want to us it on the hulls next year.

Kurt

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[Roy M]

Since you are considering refinishing of the entire boat, even more reason to consider using LPU paints. Gelcoat for the entire boat is not even remotely rational or economic. Painting with anything that doesn't have the staying power of LPU falls into the same class. What other finish were you considering? Old gelcoat boats are best served by LPU. Nothing matches this material for color retention, gloss retention, expansion/contraction characteristics, resistance to abrasion and longterm economy. The higher cost and the relatively more difficult application techniques are a small price in the scheme of things. But, you are investing your sweat, blood, elbow grease and treasure, so you get to make the decisions that meet your criteria. Best of luck.

[trashpad]

This thing keeps eating my post. Here it goes again. What is the favorite LPU brand of the group. I know that Interlux and Awlgri has the market share but I would rather find a local non-marine type distributor if possible. Hate paying shipping or twice the coat because there is a boat on the label.


Kurt

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[Roy M]

I use Sterling. There is a local paint (for San Diego) called ProLine that also makes an LPU that costs less than the Sterling. I just happen to have enough Sterling to paint my whole boat so I'm sticking with it. I will be using the ProLine primer though, as it's compatible and significantly cheaper.

Trashpad, you might consider opening an account at a local marine dealer, telling them you are a boatbuilder. They will generally offer you a discount. After a few purchases, go back to them and renegotiate for a better discount. I get as much as 50% off retail on paint, but I've been messing with boats for a very long time.

[trashpad]

From what I heard, Proline was bought out by Sherwin Williams. I wonder if they kept the Proline LPU products the same?

I started on the deck yesterday. I already had a section ground down to the original laminate but decided to tackle a 2 ft by 4 ft section first. I started by grinding down and then a wipe with MEK. Next I applied two skim coats to fair up things. Tomorrow I will long board it and see how it looks. When it is fair I am going to lay a layer of 1.5 oz cloth with epoxy and peelply. I hope after that it will be ready for the primer.

Kurt

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[Roy M]

Kurt, yes, they have been acquired by SW, but are still operating under their own name. They are a San Diego fixture, and they are the ones who produce our local supply of non-copper bottom paint.

A suggestion for you. MEK is powerful stuff. I have switched to using denatured alcohol for all my general cleaning. I believe it to be considerably less toxic over time, and given that we are always breathing and getting dirty, the less toxic the solvent the safer.

I, too, am doing my decks (among other things). I have been stripping the old LPU/sand covering with Jassco Premium epoxy stripper, right down to the epoxy layer of the deck. I found this to be the fastest, least traumatic system for my boat. Many people swear by heat guns, though for me, it's pretty rough on the substrate. It does feel good to take the 7 pound pail of crud to the dumpster (after it has dried out). I am about 1/4 through getting the entire deck stripped. I was going to do this later, but it fit right in with the sequences of installing the dinghy rollers and the bow nets, so off it is coming. At least there will be a substantial physical transformation to the boat to give me a boost. Then I will begin the hard dodger, followed by painting the cabinsides, cabintop and cockpit. By then, summer will be over and I'll transition into the next phase: getting the new deck gear installed and finishing the galley. I recently retired from boatwork, to work on my own boat. I have been telling folks that I'm leaving for Hawaii in May, partly to shame myself if I slack off. So much to do....

Keep up the good work. You are going to be blown away by your efforts once you begin to see the shine coat applied. It is transformative.

[terra57]

Our boat is a 32 year old Morgan with the nonskid cast in the fiberglass. This year we applied Kiwi-Grip, a non-skid rubberized paint that is applied with a texture roller that is supplied with the paint. It looks beautiful and was applied directly over a clean, lightly sanded deck. It provides a good non-skid sole. In areas of hard use it will break down (like when my husband rakes the prop on the outboard over it. I am keeping an extra can for annual touch ups to the back deck where stuff happens.


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[trashpad]

Hey Terra,

I agree that the Kiwi-grip boats that I have seen look great. It has been in the back on my mind since the day we bought Reboot. Since this boat was not built in a mold the builder decided to glue down thin sheets of molded non-skid to the deck to give it the look of a molded boat. I am sure it looked great the first year or two but the glue job did not hold up. Moisture got in between the fairing coat and the sheet of non-skid and froze popping up little sections here and there. Eleven years later and it is a mess. The good news is the original laminate is still in great shape.

Kurt

[trashpad]

So I have been working on a two foot by five foot section on the port side of the cockpit. I am using it as my training section with the new direction of grinding everything down smooth including the smooth water ways. After that I applied two thin coats of faring compound and then a single layer of 2.5 oz cloth. This way went a lot quicker and used considerably less material. Tomorrow I will give it a good wash and then two coats of primer.

My question to the groups resin heads is what is the layer of cloth really doing for me? The designer of the boat recommended this way but if the original material is in good shape, sound and water tight, the extra layer of cloth seems like an extra step. Maybe the thought is to encapsulate the filler material but won't a coat of epoxy followed but two coats of epoxy primer do the same thing. Please help me understand the best route to take. I want to do what is right and not have to do it again in five years.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Below show the after and before of the training section.

Kurt

[Glenn.Brooks]

Second, third or forth endorsement for kiwi Grip! The stuff works great over old molded in non skid. Not to be contrary, but I can't see any good coming from filling the old non skid with thin coats of filler then grinding that down. Thin filler filler almost certainly flake and peel over time, light finishing cloth might help it retain surface, but that is a lot of in needed extra expense and work. I think you will find kiwi grip will mold to the old nonskid pattern and it will be not even slightly noticeable after rolling on one coat. Check their application instructions to be sure - but it certainly worked supremely well for me when I re coated my molded non skid decks.

The only issue I have is that I didn't pay attention to the Kiwi grip instruction about painting the deck with the same color as the a kiwi Grip material. So if one looks closely the old deck color shows through here and there.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by trashpad

So I have been working on a two foot by five foot section on the port side of the cockpit. I am using it as my training section with the new direction of grinding everything down smooth including the smooth water ways. After that I applied two thin coats of faring compound and then a single layer of 2.5 oz cloth. This way went a lot quicker and used considerably less material. Tomorrow I will give it a good wash and then two coats of primer.

My question to the groups resin heads is what is the layer of cloth really doing for me? The designer of the boat recommended this way but if the original material is in good shape, sound and water tight, the extra layer of cloth seems like an extra step. Maybe the thought is to encapsulate the filler material but won't a coat of epoxy followed but two coats of epoxy primer do the same thing. Please help me understand the best route to take. I want to do what is right and not have to do it again in five years.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Below show the after and before of the training section.

Kurt

I can see why that method was recommended, that is a very deep pad to fill and might well crack if done with filler only. Personally, I'd approach it the other way though. By cutting say a layer or two of 10 oz cloth to fit exactly in the low, glassing it in, and then instead of peel ply I'd chemical bond a pass or two of 407 over it, and board that fair. That way most of the low would be filled with solid glass, and you can do all the final fairing in a relatively thin layer of filler on top. I think this would be better than a filler sandwich. Might weigh a couple of pounds more in the end.

[trashpad]

Hello all,

This test section started out as the before photo shows after the sheet of non-skid was removed. What I did not show was after I sanded out all the white filler and also the smooth borders down until I hit epoxy. The 407 filler you see in the after photo is only two thin layers. Several spots you can just start seeing the original epoxy and the rest low spots might hit 1/8". What would be the thickest 407 you should go before you worry about it cracking in the future?

With the new way the 407 is only there to fair the deck and not as a filler to raise the level back up to the smooth borders. I do think this way is much faster and easier.

I have already bought a roll of 2.5 oz so I might as well use it with the first layer of epoxy. I was planning on two layers of epoxy before the primer anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Kurt

[minaret]

Originally Posted by trashpad

Hello all,

This test section started out as the before photo shows after the sheet of non-skid was removed. What I did not show was after I sanded out all the white filler and also the smooth borders down until I hit epoxy. The 407 filler you see in the after photo is only two thin layers. Several spots you can just start seeing the original epoxy and the rest low spots might hit 1/8". What would be the thickest 407 you should go before you worry about it cracking in the future?

With the new way the 407 is only there to fair the deck and not as a filler to raise the level back up to the smooth borders. I do think this way is much faster and easier.

I have already bought a roll of 2.5 oz so I might as well use it with the first layer of epoxy. I was planning on two layers of epoxy before the primer anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Kurt

Primer right on top of 2.5 oz would be silly. I usually achieve a minimum 220 profile for primer. Fresh glassed 2.5 oz won't be even close. Sand to at least 180 profile before priming. You will have less burn through if you go to 220. Then sand your primer to 400 before topcoat, unless in a nonskid area.