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Old 10-12-2015, 19:28   #31
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
All that being said, I'm on the market for a decent rigger to give me a survey and help me figure out what my options are and what needs to be done. Funds are tight, so spending $400 on a survey + the cost of a new rig is a bit hard to come to terms with(including the cost of haulout if needed plus cost of sitting on the hard for the period of time).

I'll gladly do chainplates myself, and if the rig is in "OK" condition, I'll hold out, otherwise ill have to figure out how to come up with the cost of affording the new rig, however the longer i can put it off, the easier it will be for me to be in a financial position to do it.
I can't see why you'd need to haul the boat out to do this job, so that's not worth worrying over. Also, most of the maint. proceedures which I'm advocating doing, aren't very complex, or hard to learn. Assuming that you have a solid, basic knowledge of working with tools.
As most of the information on how to perform the tasks which need doing, is freely available. And probably is even on youtube, in addition to being easily found in a number of books on the various subjects.

So I'd counsel you not to be intimidated by the job. In addition to doing some studying on it. And... doing a bit of "fishing" for someone to both mentor & assist you with the refurbishing.
And, finding such a person/people usually isn't that hard, knock on wood. As sailors generally are happy to help one another out.

Not that said mentor would need to be working with you throughout the entire project. But mostly just checking up on you from time to time, as well as adding a 2nd pair of hands at times, for the jobs which require such.
- This was what my friend & dockmate did for me, when I had to drop, repair, & then re-install my furler/headstay, with the mast up.
Mostly he was there acting as a Big Brother type, for emotional backup. As the rigging wasn't complex at all.

Plus, by doing most of these jobs yourself, you can learn a lot of new & invaluable skills. In addition to boosting your confidence in your abilities. And also knowing that your rig is solid, because all of the (key) little things, have been attended to.


PS: Finding a small'ish, owner run, rigging shop is probably the best way to go. As such companies typically take pride in their work, in addition to being more than happy to explain the reasons behind their recommendations, or actions.
Knowing that by providing good customer service, they'll likely gain a repeat customer. One who'll spread the word about their quality service, far & wide (thus gaining them a lot more business).

Also, if you let us know where you're located, then it might be possible for us to suggest who to work with, professionally speaking. In addition to maybe coming down & lending a hand.
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Old 10-12-2015, 21:39   #32
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Why would his going up the mast, when the boat's heeled to 20 degrees cause the mast to fail?
Not talking about failing, talking about weight off centre causing her to heel further "bringing her on down".

Quote:
I ask as I see little difference between a man being at the masthead when the boat's heeled over, & the forces exerted on a spar by flying a spinnaker + mainsail in moderate to high winds. Especially as, such a sail combination is the one which is most commonly responsible for causing a wind induced knockdown. And that's an event which the mast & rigging was designed to withstand.
A man's weight at the top of the mast is a lot more force than a 27' boat normally sees from the sail plan at the top of the mast.

Quote:
His going to the masthead when the boat's already heeled over some, will definitely increase the angle of heel. Maybe even to the point where he'd get wet; from the extra heeling force causing the masthead to get close to the water. Although I doubt it. As, in general, there's still a Lot of righting moment left in most boats, when they're only heeled to the 20 degree mark.
Would just take a little swing, or someone stepping aboard.

Quote:
Also, where's the concept of him going up the rig when the boat is heeled over that far mentioned/being entertained?
There was talk about heeling the boat to reduce load on standing rigging to facilitate removal. Can't remove without going to masthead. Don't go to the masthead on a 27' boat when it is heeled 20 degrees or you will bring her on down.

Quote:
Also, just a common sense heads up. No one's talking about him "dropping" the spar. At least not in the sense that it'll literally get dropped, per the dictionary definition of dropping.
Many were using the term "dropping". Poor choice of words. Unstepping or lowering are better. Dropping can mean something completely different.
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Old 15-12-2015, 16:56   #33
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

I've been thinking about this alot more recently.

I'm thinking ill be doing the chainplates in a "quadrant" style sectioning. If the chainplates on port and starboard are all the same, and measurments show that each one is idendical, ill be having them all fabricated as one, otherwise they will be fabricated based on the ones i pull at the time.

The process for chainplate install/reinstall will be as follow:
Quadrant 1(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
Lower aft port
Lower aft starboard

Quadrant 2(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
lower fore port
lower fore starboard

Quadrant 3(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
upper port
upper starboard

Quadrant 4(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
bow

Quadrant 5(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
stern

With the lowers, I will be doing both sides at one time. I also plan to loosen the tension on the lower fore/aft shrouds just a touch as well, while leaving all mast head ones as is.

While the lowers are being fabricated, since all my running rigging is new as of 2014, I will be using halyards for main and jib as support. If i feel the need, ill also add some other halyards to increase support.

Once lowers are completely replaced, fore and aft, I will then work on the uppers at a single time, being port and starboard, all the while using halyards to give the structural support(using 1-3 lines for the support lines).

Then i'll proceed with the bow shroud, I am also thinking I will loosen the stern shroud just a touch and crank down on the supporting halyard as well.

The same process will occur for the stern shroud as we did on the bow, just the opposite end of the boat.

Once all of that is complete, I have enough compelling evidence that I do NOT need to lower the mast to replace the shrouds. The shrouds will be done one at a time, not in quadrants like the chainplates.

I will be doing the lowers first, then the uppers on both port/starboard, then will proceed on with the bow and stern shrouds.

As long as I feel confident that the chainplates and knees are in good shape, and the lower shrouds are also in new condition (I will be using the stay-loc or something similar) I am confident that due to the minimal lateral forces, especially on a clear not windy day and being in a marina, it is perfectly safe to do with the mast in place.

This also is on the condition that after goig up and down the mast for inspections, i see no evidence of issues that need addressing. Given that i do find something that I feel untrust worthy about, the mast WILL be pulled for further inspection and repairs along with shroud replacements
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Old 16-12-2015, 03:58   #34
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
I've been thinking about this alot more recently.

I'm thinking ill be doing the chainplates in a "quadrant" style sectioning. If the chainplates on port and starboard are all the same, and measurments show that each one is idendical, ill be having them all fabricated as one, otherwise they will be fabricated based on the ones i pull at the time.

The process for chainplate install/reinstall will be as follow:
Quadrant 1(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
Lower aft port
Lower aft starboard

Quadrant 2(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
lower fore port
lower fore starboard

Quadrant 3(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
upper port
upper starboard

Quadrant 4(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
bow

Quadrant 5(remove, have fabricated, reinstall):
stern

With the lowers, I will be doing both sides at one time. I also plan to loosen the tension on the lower fore/aft shrouds just a touch as well, while leaving all mast head ones as is.

While the lowers are being fabricated, since all my running rigging is new as of 2014, I will be using halyards for main and jib as support. If i feel the need, ill also add some other halyards to increase support.

Once lowers are completely replaced, fore and aft, I will then work on the uppers at a single time, being port and starboard, all the while using halyards to give the structural support(using 1-3 lines for the support lines).

Then i'll proceed with the bow shroud, I am also thinking I will loosen the stern shroud just a touch and crank down on the supporting halyard as well.

The same process will occur for the stern shroud as we did on the bow, just the opposite end of the boat.

Once all of that is complete, I have enough compelling evidence that I do NOT need to lower the mast to replace the shrouds. The shrouds will be done one at a time, not in quadrants like the chainplates.

I will be doing the lowers first, then the uppers on both port/starboard, then will proceed on with the bow and stern shrouds.

As long as I feel confident that the chainplates and knees are in good shape, and the lower shrouds are also in new condition (I will be using the stay-loc or something similar) I am confident that due to the minimal lateral forces, especially on a clear not windy day and being in a marina, it is perfectly safe to do with the mast in place.

This also is on the condition that after goig up and down the mast for inspections, i see no evidence of issues that need addressing. Given that i do find something that I feel untrust worthy about, the mast WILL be pulled for further inspection and repairs along with shroud replacements
Sounds like a good plan, Chowdan.
Just a small piece of pedantry, (it's the instructor in me ) : While we call the wires laterally supporting the mast shrouds, the ones to the bow and stern are called stays; respectively, the forestay and the backstay.
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Old 16-12-2015, 08:54   #35
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

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Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
She is in dire need of new chainplates, and probably standing rigging(this part is up in the air).
Your standing rigging should always be up in the air!
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Old 29-12-2015, 13:10   #36
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Re: Replacing standing rigging/chainplates on B27 while in the water

Well everyone....

I have successfully pulled the two lower fore stays and used halyards in place of them.

The mast is still standing, chainplates on these two are off and in a manufacture as we speak getting 6 new 316 plates fabricated for me!

Fortunately all of them are the same size for both port and starboard, so i was lucky enough to be able ot just use 1 or two as templates.

I should be getting all 6 in the first week of Jan and will be able to install them fairly fast hopefully!

They wont be polished unfortunately so ill be polishing them myself, and doing passivation as well before reinstalling. Hopefully second week all 6 new plates will be installed and I'll also get started on pulling the fore and aft plates for fabrication!
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