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Old 01-08-2016, 09:50   #16
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

When I've repaired cracks like this I pre drill for screws, then squirt acetone several times into the crack with a syringe, then squirt unthickened epoxy into the crack with a syringe. I then close the crack by compressing the wood with clamps & while it's clamped install the screws. Leave the clamps in place for a day, then remove & bung the holes. I've made several repairs this way & have never had one fail. I would add that keeping the teak sealed will significantly reduce the likelihood of the wood cracking.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:52   #17
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

If it is teak, just let it soak up oil till the seam closes. The wood is too dry, which should not be with teak. Otherwise, cut out the section and sister in another piece. Problem with gluing real teak is the glue will only sit on the surface and will not do well with the teak oil inside.
More likely you have some kind of mahogany. Also if you fill the crack with a hard filler and the wood does expand once its wet or resaturated with oil, it will crack even more. Scratch the wood to see if under the skin it turns a deep oily brown. If not, probably not teak.
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Old 01-08-2016, 09:55   #18
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

Looks like a pushpit off a Union Polaris or one of similar design. I am fully in Zeehag's camp. Tie a line to it and toss it in the bay alongside for a week. She'll swell up good as new.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:19   #19
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

While replacing the plank would be best, it appears to be held to the crossmembers with two pinned, blind mortise and tenon joints, which is probably also the root cause of the split. That joint is beyond the ability of most 'home craftsman' to make and fit well. Aged and dried out teak can be glued with epoxy, I've done it many times with complete success. The mechanical strength (and gap filling properties) of quality epoxies exceeds the strength of the wood; if you get a good bond the wood will break before the joint fails.

I've also glued fresh sawn teak with epoxy, with and without an acetone wash, with varying degrees of success. Grain orientation and inherent oiliness of the individual wood seem to have a very significant effect on the outcome when gluing fresh teak...

And again, edge screw fastening seems likely to result in splitting because of the grain orientation, even with the high density of teak. If the plank were quarter sawn there would be no problem, but as can be clearly seen in the pictures, the plank is closer to flat sawn...
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:32   #20
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

If you really want the expensive permanent solution, lay it out on a sheet of SS plate and trace the pattern, layout 1/4" inside the line, cut it out and bevel the edges, polish it, layout for fasteners in place, drill and countersink for fasteners, drill and dry fit in place with screws, and bed and fasten in place on the underside of the whole plank all the way around. This will prevent all movement in the joints and all further cracking or checking. Might even use Satan's Glue. The one place it's appropriate!
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:38   #21
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

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Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
While replacing the plank would be best, it appears to be held to the crossmembers with two pinned, blind mortise and tenon joints, which is probably also the root cause of the split. That joint is beyond the ability of most 'home craftsman' to make and fit well. Aged and dried out teak can be glued with epoxy, I've done it many times with complete success. The mechanical strength (and gap filling properties) of quality epoxies exceeds the strength of the wood; if you get a good bond the wood will break before the joint fails.

I've also glued fresh sawn teak with epoxy, with and without an acetone wash, with varying degrees of success. Grain orientation and inherent oiliness of the individual wood seem to have a very significant effect on the outcome when gluing fresh teak...

And again, edge screw fastening seems likely to result in splitting because of the grain orientation, even with the high density of teak. If the plank were quarter sawn there would be no problem, but as can be clearly seen in the pictures, the plank is closer to flat sawn...
Yes! And probably plantation teak, not old growth. This is given away by the checks at opposing 45 angle close together.

For the record, I find MEK makes a much better solvent wash for teak than anything else, especially 'tone. It evaporates much more slowly. When possible, wipe with MEK and clean rag until rag comes back with no more brown on it. Then reduce first application of epoxy with MEK. Like follows like. First application of epoxy should occur within 30 minutes of heavy wet wiping, or oil will rise to the surface again.
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:38   #22
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

I'll bite, what's Satan's Glue?
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Old 01-08-2016, 10:44   #23
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

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I'll bite, what's Satan's Glue?



5200.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:00   #24
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

The crack will continue to run unless it is stopped as previously mentioned. A drill through the split perpendicular and a dowel at that spot will stop it from running. It looks like someone stepped on the edge of it and overloaded it but I'm not clear on how it is actually placed on the boat and how someone could step on that edge. Many different ways to repair and reinforce, all a matter of opinion and I won't go there.

I'm posting because the OP also asked about bedding compound. On our wood boat, we bed just about everything metal to wood using Dolfinite. It is an all purpose bedding useful for anything that touches wood. So, wood-to-wood, metal-to-wood, and so forth. Very removable too.

Things we've done with it--besides putting it on mating surfaces of countless parts of the wood boat as we rebuilt it... we use it for bedding winches to wood winch base pads, turning blocks, stanchions, even windlass to canvas deck. We seal up the housing of our steering gear with it (the sides come off) and it remains watertight in the cockpit. Then, if we need to pull apart the housing to get to the autopilot, we take out the screws, pull apart, do our thing and then re-bed with new Dolfinite. Very useful material.

Also, if using wood screws, dip them in the Dolfinite before screwing into the predrilled hole in the wood--it acts as a bit of lubricant so your predrill can be a smaller hole. Ah, and that reminds me, I suggest using full-body bronze screws rather than stainless steel. The stainless just stains "less" and eventually will get a black discoloration onto the teak from the iron in the steel.

We have several harder to find traditional boat products and have Dolfinite in the Schooner Chandlery here. You can find fasteners like full-body bronze screws as well as a variety of full body silicon bronze bolts that you may find useful here in the marketplace as well.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:54   #25
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

Forget epoxy or glue will not hold. Clamp together to close the joint ,drill and screw. Cover with bun.
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Old 01-08-2016, 14:46   #26
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

As a long time woodworker I would agree with glueing and clamping the board together. Make sure to use an exterior wood glue as regular glue will not hold up to the elements.
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Old 01-08-2016, 20:52   #27
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

180 marine epoxy with uv stabiliser/ slow hardener/saw a piece of teak of similar weathering carefully save the sawdust and mix into the epoxy to match your deck bright work / mix the epoxy thoroughly first then add sawdust / if the crack has been repaired before trickle a small amount of epoxy without sawdust mix first / your woodwork looks to be doweled together with teak dowel if you have access to teak dowel a length of dowel glued into a hole drilled into the end of the timber across the crack to add strength also provide material for sawdust and match the doweling of your original work.


clamp till properly dried
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Old 01-08-2016, 21:06   #28
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

In wooden boat building school, they taught to replace wood with wood when possible, eliminates the expansion shrinkage problem,glue a spline in the large crack, tight bond works well and mix up some sawdust with tight bond for the small crack, I wouldn't clamp it, as it has a memory, a fastening might help to stop the crack continuing.
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Old 01-08-2016, 22:20   #29
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

If you're going to do it old-school in a way that is appealing, you could make a dutchman repair. Glue in the joint, clamp together, and glue the inlaid dutchman in place. Elegant repair if you do it. You don't need a store-bought jig, you can make your own, of course.







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Old 02-08-2016, 02:25   #30
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Re: Repair and Fill for Large Teak Crack

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1)The beam that forms part of the stern boomkin has a deep crack, that extends from the end to a mounting location for a stern railing pad.

I would love to get some advice on the repair and/or fill. The wood is bone dry now. I'm thinking it is best to do repairs and fills before oiling.

2)Also, some smaller gaps between the lattice. Originally had epoxy, but with expansion and contraction, that didn't hold.

Appreciate any guidance. Thank you.
Bit of uh --controversy-- here, so, just for grins, let's examine BigSmile's inquiry in a little more depth. I've got a couple of hours to burn...

First some context.

The square patch looks suspiciously like a stanchion base. If that is true, then the next question is 'are there lifelines or railing at the top of the stanchion'?

If lifelines, the cause is pretty clear, too much outboard pressure was put on the lifeline and/or stanchion, and that pressure found a weakness, probably induced by the termination of the tenon and the thinness of the mortise. A closer look at the picture might serve to illustrate this hypotheses.



If the stanchion is topped by a rail, then the question becomes, Is it welded on or held by setscrews? A welded rail is much more rigid and unlikely to give; those held together by setscrews are notoriously unrigid and susceptible to deformation. Rigidity to a setscrew fastened rail can be added by either drilling and through-bolting (I use 316 10-24 pan head machine screws and nylocs), or drilling a 3/16" hole through the rail fitting and stanchion and tapping for a 316 1/4-28 x 1/2" pan head machine screw.

Once we've got the rail sufficiently rigid to spread the stresses out over all four mounting points, we can address the dastardly split plank. Short of replacing it entirely, some sort of 'repair' is necessary.

To begin with, probably the best initial thing to do would be to drill out the retaining dowels and remove the plank entirely. Then the actual situation
could be assessed and the proper fix could be determined. All the joints could also be properly cleaned and prepared for regluing, and the cracks could also be properly cleaned, glued and clamped before the structure is reassembled.

For the 'edge screw it for added strength' camp, the potential for added strength is directly proportional to the amount you can tighten the screws.
To get any significant added strength, the technique used here is very important, primarily because of the grain orientation but also because of the joint construction itself.

In outline, the split plank should be through drilled all the way to the tenoned cross-member, where the hole transitions to a pilot diameter for the tensioning screw.

In detail, for any significant added strength and to minimize (not eliminate) the very real danger of splitting, here's a plan of action.

First a material and tool list. We'll assume the split plank is 3" wide and 3/4" thick. So you'll need: 2 ea. 3 3/4" #12 316 pan head sheet metal screws (silicon bronze would be better but good luck finding them) a 7/16 Forstner bit (to drill a flat bottomed hole), a 7/32" drill bit for drilling a through hole in the split plank to allow clamping to the crossmember, and a long 5/32" bit for drilling a pilot hole in the crossmember.

To start, drill a half inch deep hole with the forstner bit into the edge of the split plank. Then take the 7/32" bit and drill through the split plank (if you haven't disassembled the structure, take care not to drill into the crossmember!) If you have taken the structure apart, a drill press helps to keep the through hole centered. Finally, use the 5/32" bit to drill the pilot hole for the screw, drilling about 1/8" or so deeper than the length of the screw. (better to be too deep than too shallow) If you've take the structure apart, dry fit and clamp the structure back together so you can use the through hole in the split plank as a jig to properly place and align the pilot hole in the crossmember.

After all the drilling is done, do a final clean up and dry fit, if the wood is oily, clean with with MEK as per Minaret above if you're using epoxy (or any other glue really, as far as I know the oil will inhibit bonding with all glues). Finally liberally apply your chosen glue to both surfaces, clamp and then screw.

After a day or so remove the clamps, re-drill the dowel holes (to the next oversize if necessary) and glue in new dowels. Wait another day, sand and finish or not as desired...

A picture describing the 'theory' behind this method. hope it illustrates the advantage of using pan head versus counter sunk heads in this application.



A word about 'crack prevention'. While teak is strong and dense, it is a far cry from crystalline. In fact a better description would be laminate. For this reason, drilling more holes will make further splits more likely, because more area is left unattached to adjoining areas. The principle is much the same as grinding too much sound material from around a small crack in a fiberglass repair; as more longitudinal fibers from the original structure are severed, the weaker the original structure becomes. (this of course doesn't hold for chop strand construction)

And finally, Minaret's suggestion of a plate screwed and glued to the underside, though maybe somewhat tongue in cheek, has merit. Or maybe four appropriately sized L-shaped plates as backing for the stanchion pads and screwed (or even through bolted) to the crossmembers...
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