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Old 18-08-2014, 15:19   #16
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Currently rebuilding the aft end of the interior in a '69 Pearson. Boats from the beginning to at least the '70s had a wood interior tabbed to the hull. Later, they began using fiberglass soles with the interior built outside the hull and lifted into the hull and tabbed into place. Full FRP linered interiors are a bitch to modify at all and have a decent appearance when you are done. The furniture/bulkheads act as reinforcing for the hull which is one area where you can greatly increase the strength of the hull as the factories typically only used light tabbing.

If you elect to gut the interior, take a ton of pictures before you start. Photograph every joint and cranny and how the interior was assembled before you remove one piece of wood. Measure every everything and make rough sketches with measurements preferably in a notebook for later reference. Note permanent reference points and locations from them for the the rebuilt interior. Try and preserve as much of the woodwork as you can for later use and/or patterns.

For me, the fastest way to cut through the tabbing is with a cheap angle grinder, sanding pad and 60 grit paper. A sawmill would probably work fine but you will still have to grind the remains of the tabbing. For the rebuild, a professional quality saber saw is a necessity. Buy a Milwaukee screw driver Cordless - Drills - Power Tools - Tools & HardwareÂ*at The Home Depot Bult about half the interior of our W32 and installed a couple thousand screws by hand before discovering electric screw driver. My right hand and arm still haven't recovered from all hand work with a screwdriver.

Having said the above, don't tear into the interior unless it's rotted beyond saving. You have no idea how much work is involved in putting the interior of a boat together. If you are addicted and can't control yourself, tackle small areas at a time and don't move on until that section is finished. We built a power away Westsail 32 kit, essentially a big bathtub with a motor. From start to launch, took a year with still a bunch of work to be done. We lived in the boatyard. I worked full time and that wasn't 8/5 but 16/7 on the boat and my wife helped before and after her job. Took us another year of more leisurely labor before we left for SoPac. Along the way managed to shorten the fingers on my left hand in a table saw screw up. Stretch that out for part time work and we're talking years, even decades to gut and rebuild a boat. You will still regularly find W32 kits purchased in the '70s for sale, still unfinished, today. We built our Westsail in a yard that was mostly ferro boats. Went back 10 years after our launch and only one of those 20 or so boats had been finished and launched. Most were in the same condition as when we launched a decade earlier. Most were on their 3rd or more owners and/or were totally abandoned. Home building is the land of broken dreams.

BTW, you won't save any money doing all the work yourself and quite possibly will have way more money in the boat than if you'd bought one in good shape in the first place.

Having said the above, I'm doing it again. Bought the boat with all the goodies I wanted and immediately started rebuilding it to my liking. It's an addiction. Have replaced and added to all the hardware on deck. Tore out the SPOTs dumb diesel engine conversion and redid it. That's what got me into rebuilding the galley. Nearing the completion of the galley and swear that's the end of modifying the boat. Really, really, really need to quit working on the boat and go sailing.
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Old 18-08-2014, 15:46   #17
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Vayu and rover--good posts.
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Old 18-08-2014, 16:31   #18
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Thanks for everyone's input. I guess I should have been clearer, I don't want to completely redesign the boat. Just pull the items out, fix them up, then put them back. I'm concerned with the electrical system in old boats the most. The wiring seems suspect at best. And if anyone's tired to fish wire through the walls after the drywall is up, they'll tell you it's 1000x easier to do it during construction. That's my biggest concern, I'm assuming the same goes for the plumbing as well.
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Old 18-08-2014, 16:49   #19
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Any boat you buy, you're going to find yourself involved in all those things. Electrical, plumbing, electronics, rigging, coatings. And it's not just old boats. Talk to people who have plunked down a half a million on a new boat. They're still sorting out electrical issues, diesel issues, leaks, cracks....on brand new boats. We met two new Leopard owners coming through here on their way north this season who told us the exact same thing. They both said they'd buy another Leopard, but never another new Leopard.

so, you're going to be working on any boat you get. One that's had previous owners will have issues related to other people's way of doing things to their boat.
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Old 18-08-2014, 18:26   #20
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Re: Removing the Interior?

I am (one of) the member(s) who has pulled his interior out. It was a haul out that got out of hand but it is going to be worth it.

I originally intended to put a coat of paint topsides and then anti-foul. But life intervened and the boat was on the hard for a year. The interior was 30 years old so I decided while I am in for a penny it was time to do it. The interior turned into a boat rewire and serious upgrade.

The main thing is to not underestimate the time. You will need lots of man-hours and doing it on weekends only will take forever. If you have "casual" help that's great but don't depend on them. in terms of cost don't let others scare you.

Interior - I have about $500 in materials. I have probably another $500 in tools that are needed to properly woodwork.

Electrical - This is the expensive one. If you close your eyes and figure now is the time to upgrade the electrical you will make similar decisions to me. I am about $1,600 in parts at present.

Topsides - The original topsides paint, now done and antifoul was another ~$1,000

Here is the thread on the interior

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/getting-dirty-haulout-87986-3.html#post1563366

Here is the thread on the electrical

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/circuit-wire-fuse-size-128217.html#post1574376

Here is a thread about the electrical gear decisions.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/putting-it-all-together-excederin-headache-128166.html

PS - And SailVayu has one of the best "simple" refresh projects going - I suggest you look at their blog.
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:21   #21
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Steve its a boat not a house. Forget everything you know about working on houses as almost nothing will apply and that includes the wiring. I suggest you get a few good books on boat repair, maybe start with a small boat for practice. I recommend you check out an article I did awhile back.
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Old 19-08-2014, 08:37   #22
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinDE View Post
Thanks for everyone's input. I guess I should have been clearer, I don't want to completely redesign the boat. Just pull the items out, fix them up, then put them back. I'm concerned with the electrical system in old boats the most. The wiring seems suspect at best. And if anyone's tired to fish wire through the walls after the drywall is up, they'll tell you it's 1000x easier to do it during construction. That's my biggest concern, I'm assuming the same goes for the plumbing as well.
Sailvayu said it but I think it is worth repeating and emphasizing. Working on a boat is NOT like working on a house. Wiring for example is not stapled to a stud and sealed in behind sheet rock. Some newer boats may be different but older boats 99% of the wiring is run inside cabinets or lockers or behind removable headliners or panels or under the floor. Plumbing the same.

Sometimes a bit of a pain to access to pull old or run new but still would be 100 to 1000 times easier and faster than stripping the interior to do the work.
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Old 19-08-2014, 09:00   #23
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Re: Removing the Interior?

If one little thing about the boat is bothering you, consider changing that one thing... but for the love of god don't rip everything out. PO ripped out the aft cabin because of a leaky rail and I am dreading having to put that back together. Luckily (I guess?) there's a bunch of projects that take precedence over that, like making our boat not sink... so I don't have to dwell on it too much right now.

Like everyone else here has said, it's a boat, not a house. Unless it's a houseboat, in which case it's still only 50% house and then only some of the rules don't apply. But yeah... it's harder than you think. And you'd be shooting yourself in the foot by doing it.

If you're worried about the electrical/plumbing, you're likely going to have to bite the bullet and feed things through the hard way. That's just how it's done.
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Old 19-08-2014, 09:30   #24
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
Steve its a boat not a house. Forget everything you know about working on houses as almost nothing will apply and that includes the wiring. I suggest you get a few good books on boat repair, maybe start with a small boat for practice. I recommend you check out an article I did awhile back.
C1, What is a Project Boat and is one right for you? - Project Boat Zen
in this regard... this is the WORST advice...

you are trying to get your head around electrical and plumbing and if you think having drywall in the way is a PITA wait till what is in your way is a headlined and the lines have been glassed to the cabintop or run thru stringers that are then glassed over or you find yourself a victim of the 70s wisdom of 'gargen hose = marine plumbing'.

generally, i agree with drawing clear lines of distinction between residential and marine building mostly due to the very different materials, building and design process, size / space and, of course, not a true 90 anywhere to be seen.

if i had to choose between cutting out a sole, removing 40 year old plumbing, re-plumbing and replacing the sole and knuckle busting for hourse trying to cut out and remove the existing plumbing before re-plumbing, i would choose cut out the sole 100 times out of 100 and have the project done in 1/3rd of the time. truth is, cutting out the sole would end up costing me at least 150% of $$ to leaving the sole intact (and likely more like 300% because... well why wouldnt i have all new custom tanks made while i have access to the previously inaccessible dead space in the bilge and... duh! of course i am gonna paint this bilge but i want to grind and re-glass first and so on and so on and BAM 3X the $$).

you will learn very quickly where and when you remove and replace and when you work within the constraints of the existing component.

i am not boat work is in anyway as easy a residential work or even pretending to think that the 1st time i mixed up 105 and 205 (incorrectly) i knew what i was doing but what i knew from residential construction and carpentry and reading and asking questions here and hiring people (and learned from them) to do the things i didnt know how to do hard me producing quality results in a matter of months.

if you decide to tackle this project, LMK and i'll happily buy u the 1st of many 5 pack of sawzall blades.

-steve
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Old 19-08-2014, 10:44   #25
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Re: Removing the Interior?

How about instead of gutting a boat, you find one of those worthless already gutted for you boats. At least you'll have spent nothing on the hull.
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Old 19-08-2014, 10:47   #26
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Re: Removing the Interior?

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How about instead of gutting a boat, you find one of those worthless already gutted for you boats. At least you'll have spent nothing on the hull.
Where does one find one of those?
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Old 19-08-2014, 10:52   #27
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Re: Removing the Interior?

Craigslist, eBay are pribabl the best sources.

Sailboatlisting.com and search for really cheap boats using the search feature.
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Old 19-08-2014, 10:55   #28
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Re: Removing the Interior?

ssanzone you are entitled to your opinion but as a 40 year marine professional who has worked on, built and inspected thousands of boat I respectfully disagree. I have run miles of wires and hoses through many old boats and only in very rare cases did I have to surgically remove anything to be able to do that. Once you start hacking away at a boat it shows and it will loose value.
As for house repair skills being transfered to boats for the most part this simply does not work and some of the worst work I have seen on boats was done by highly skilled home carpenters, plumbers and electricians. The problem is they think they know what they are doing when in reality they have no clue about boats. Their work may be great on a house but not on a boat. Hell I suck at doing house work but I know my limitations. They are different animals. Yes there are exceptions there always are but in general I stand by what I said, no worries if you do not agree.
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Old 19-08-2014, 10:55   #29
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Re: Removing the Interior?

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Craigslist, eBay are pribabl the best sources.

Sailboatlisting.com and search for really cheap boats using the search feature.
Sailboatlistings.com, great site, thanks man.
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Old 19-08-2014, 22:08   #30
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Re: Removing the Interior?

everyone here is making valid points. heres my .02....

im 2 1/2 years into a complete gut and rebuild project and ive got a couple of years to go. something you really need to ask yourself is do you genuinely like doing this kind of work? do you like the endless hours of grinding, sweating in tyvek, breathing through a full face mask for hours at a time? in unnatural positions with lousy light in all kinds of weather? yeah, me too, so I say jump in. there are worse addictions to have...

youll make mistakes, youll bleed, youll be overwhelmed and exhausted. it will take a ridiculous amount of time, you will not make money on it when its done. since you are a relative noob, you will often be overcome by 'analysis paralysis', a condition brought on by the fear of screwing-up or doing re-work. for every job there is a youtube video and countless threads on this and other forums. breathe.

also, its really nice to have the boat in your back yard so you can do something on it every day. in my opinion, having to commute to the boat yard is a deal breaker.

and take pictures or it didn't really happen...
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