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Old 24-02-2010, 11:47   #16
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Originally Posted by Captin_Kirk View Post
That sounds good. Without varnish on the bottom before I bed, is that not going to be an area where water will penitrate (Meaning the side where side and bottom meet?)


If I put a few coats on the wood before bedding it, then use epoxy on on screws as I secure them, use teak plugs to cover the holes and lightly sand them them apply a few more coats of varnish, will that seal everything up nice then? Or will the different amount of coats of varnish on the plugs and the wood piece itself make it stank out? Also will the varnish in the screw holes stop the plugs from gluing to the piece?


I know this is allot of questions, but I have never done this before, and it is a huge job, that I don't want to have to repeat anytime soon.

The sealant will take care of any water trying to penetrate the bottom of the pieces.

Take small pieces of paper towel and push them in the mounting holes when you varnish the pieces off the boat. That will keep any varnish from going in the holes.

After you mount the pieces, plug the holes and let everything dry for a couple of days. Then go ahead and put at least 4 more coats of varnish on (you can never have too many) - allow the varnish to dry and sand before recoating, of course. Don't be tempted to varnish on a windy day - it's tough to get a good job. Besides, those are the days to go out for a sail. Good luck!
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Old 24-02-2010, 12:16   #17
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Sounds great. Thanks for the advice everyone. Got the first few pieces off then we got snow dumped on us again.

Ahh the joys of Canada
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Old 24-02-2010, 12:32   #18
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Kirk- if you have cored decks (balsa) you should pot the holes with thickened epoxy prior to re-installing the screws or bolts. If you are unfamiliar with how to do this do a search here or on other forums, I know there are some very complete, illustrated instructions somewhere that I have seen. Basically it's just reaming out the holes and then filling with a thickened epoxy mix so that when you install the screws they go into the epoxy with no possibility of water getting into the core material. Very easy to do once you get the hang of it.
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Old 26-02-2010, 14:11   #19
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3m 101 no longer made

Just to complicate things a bit, I have a friend that works as a sales rep at 3m and contacted her about getting me some 101. She told me that they no longer make 101. She mentioned the 5200, but based on the consensus of the board, putting deck hardware and trim woodwork down with that is bad idea. So..... what are my other options other than 101?
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Old 26-02-2010, 14:54   #20
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Just to complicate things a bit, I have a friend that works as a sales rep at 3m and contacted her about getting ...
I very much doubt that.
Notwithstanding, any polysulfide sealant will do.
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Old 26-02-2010, 15:14   #21
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I found it hard to believe as well. But it could also be a case of they no longer make it in Canada. I have seen that way to many times to believe.
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Old 26-02-2010, 15:28   #22
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Just to complicate things a bit, I have a friend that works as a sales rep at 3m and contacted her about getting me some 101. She told me that they no longer make 101. She mentioned the 5200, but based on the consensus of the board, putting deck hardware and trim woodwork down with that is bad idea. So..... what are my other options other than 101?
Butyl rubber, available at Home Depot, in the states anyway.
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Old 26-02-2010, 17:07   #23
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LifeCaulk is polysulfide, the same as 101. Find it hard to believe they would stop making it unless they are willing to give the market to LifeCaulk. That actually could be the case. AFAIK LifeCaulk, Inc. doesn't actually make the polysulfide, just buys it from a chemical company, packages it, and resells it. Maybe 3M is the manufacturer for LifeCaulk, Inc. and is content with just making it. In any case, 3m 101 has been pretty much non existant at the Chandleries I've been frequenting over the past two years. The 3m polyurethanes (5200, etc.) are everywhere but 101 has been conspicuously absent.

FWIW, really like the LifeCaulk packaging. The small squeeze tubes cap have a sharp end that punctures the tube. The large tubes spout can be unscrewed and the caulk cleaned out. That feature has saved me a lot of money as I could rehabilitate cartridges that had sat for awhile. The 3M packaging usually resulted in a spout of solidified gunk that had to be thrown away.
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Old 26-02-2010, 17:59   #24
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I have not been able to find 101 either for the past year.
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Old 28-02-2010, 07:43   #25
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I checked with 3M and they told me 4000UV is the recommended replacement for 101. The website is under construction and I could not get to the page but here is a part of the product info sheet on 4000.

I have no experience with it, as of yet.

Um Saudade
Technical Data February, 2007
Typical Physical
Properties
Note: The following technical information and data should be considered representative
or typical only and should not be used for specification purposes.
Container:
10 fl. oz. cartridge (295 ml)
3 fl. oz. tube (90 ml)
400 ml Flex Pack (13.5 fl. oz.)
Base: Polyether
Density lbs/Gallon (Approx.): 11.7
Color: White
Consistency: Medium Paste
Service Temperature: -40F to 190F (-40C to 90C)
Coverage (10 oz. cartridge): 1/8 inch (0.3175 cm) bead = 120 lineal feet (36.6 m)
Product Construction 3M™ Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure 4000 UV 05280 3 oz. tube (90 ml)
3M™ Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure 4000 UV 06580 10 fl. oz. cartridge (295 ml)
3M™ Marine Adhesive/Sealant Fast Cure 4000 UV 06586 400 ml Flex Pack (13.5 fl. oz.)
Product Uses 3M marine adhesive/sealant 4000 UV may be used in typical bedding and sealing
applications including fiberglass hull, wood to fiberglass, porthole frames, deck
fittings, moldings, thru hull and deck hardware.
Teak (primed) 8.0 Cohesive
Mahogany 9.4 Cohesive
Overlap Shear Strength: One inch (2.54 cm) overlap specimens (0.093 inch
[0.2362 cm] thickness). Tested at 70F (21C), 50% relative humidity.
Strength
Substrate psi (kg/cm
2) Failure Mode*
Woods:
Fir 226 (15.9) 40/60 Coh/Adh)
Teak 174 (12.2) 40/60 Coh/Adh)
Teak (primed) 196 (13.8) 40/60 Coh/Adh)
Metals:
Aluminum 329 (23.1) Adhesive
Plastics/Polymers:
Gelcoat 424 (29.8) Cohesive
Fiberglass 251 (17.6) Cohesive
ABS 279 (19.6) 40/60 Coh/Adh)
- 3 -
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Old 28-02-2010, 09:14   #26
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Thanks Um Saudade:

Ironically I chose 4000 to bed my gen-set stringers with...looks like I did OK..
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Old 28-02-2010, 19:23   #27
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I just got the headliner off and will start the process of removing all hardware next weekend. I found today that the core is marine plywood on my boat. Is there any reason to re-drill over-sized holes and fill with epoxy like for a balsa or foam core with the plywood core?
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Old 28-02-2010, 20:12   #28
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Plywood is very hard to compress so you don't need the rout and thickened epoxy routine for that. Plywood is very unforgiving of leaks, however. If water gets in, it creeps along the grain causing rot over a large area. You definitely want to seal any exposed plywood with epoxy resin. I'd probably do the rout and epoxy fill routine just to be safe. When I built our Westsail many many moons ago, just sealed all the fittings with LifeCaulk, however. AFAIK, there has never been a problem with rot in the plywood core and that's been more than 35 years ago.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:24   #29
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I checked with 3M and they told me 4000UV is the recommended replacement for 101 ...
I wonder why the manufacturer (3M) would recommend “4000UV” (a hybrid polyether) as a direct replacement for “101" (a polysulfide, Thiokol).
Polysulfides, like “101", are chemical & solvent resistant, whereas “4000 UV” is not - a rather consequential difference.

BoatLIFE’s “Life Calk” is a polysulfide sealant.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:53   #30
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Kirk,

I would still seal the holes with epoxy as John and Roverhi have suggested - Roverhi is right on when he says that a small leak with a plywood core can follow the grain of the wood and cause a large area of rot.....better to be safe.

You got some bad advice from the 3m rep suggesting 5200 as a replacement for polysulfide - you'll need a hatchet if you ever need to get those pieces off again.

I'm with Gord and would stay away from the 4000uv as well - you may need to use a teak cleaner and brightener on those pieces some day and who knows if the 4000 will stand up to either of them - they're both pretty harsh.

I would use a polysulfide - I've used Lifecaulk before and it's worked fine. (not for teak deck seams though)
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