Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

[otherthan]

Originally Posted by Geoduck

Charliecobra- Hell, I might as well just drill & tap and install new keel bolts next to the old ones - it would be easier than dropping the keel and I can do it in the water. I have a 1'' mag drill that ought to do the trick.
I thought by now someone had a way to x-ray through the keel at the hull /keel joint which is where all the waisting takes place.
Guess I'd better get busy.

keel steel or lead? bolts stainless, bronz, galvanise, silicone bronz?

personaly I would not drill other holes if not absolutly needed

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by jobi

I have my hands full alredy

Your a better man than me Gungha Din



That's the sort of boat I was talking about earlier - to disassemble

[Me-and-Boo]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

As a bit of a radical (?) alternative to jumping straight into a refurb project, especially if a Newbie to boats and / or a major refurb.......
Personally I would go for something wood, even on a rotten boat the odds are good that at least some of the wood will be recoverable (and likely of a quality that no longer readily available).........and if being adventurous, could even try and replace a few planks / ribs / part of the deck etc just to see how that goes

The yard where my boat is at has an old wood cruiser with missing wood. Her ribs are showing allowing viewing of all her systems: engine, plumbing, electrical, steering and more. You can see the various fastening techniques used to build her.

Last weekend a couple of men were breaking a Catalina sailboat. While they were cutting her I took some time to see how the systems were laid out. She was a smaller boat than mine I am sure much of what I saw applied to mine.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by w1651

...I wtill need to rebed the life line stancions as well as replace the lines with Dyneema or double braid poly lines. I also want to rebed the chain plates as well as add a good size plate to each under the deck...

i just finished doing all my lifelines in Dyneema and they look great. I used and highly recommend the Dynex Dux sold by these guys ...Colligomarine. Their video on the modified Brummel splice is excellent and easy to do.

To save a bit I ended up using my old turnbuckles and some stainless steel thimbels instead of their terminators and am quite satisfied.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

For me the deal breaker is teak decks. There is no way of 100% knowing what is going on under them. I know I will piss off owners who have them, so I will apologize now...

You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by sneuman

You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.

I'd stay away from screwed down teak decks too. But I wouldn't assume anything about an older fiberglass boat...The core wasn't bad on my 37 year old balsa cored deck. Not a single soft spot. And it wasn't bad on a lot of the boats I was looking at either (in the 'project boat' price range). I set out with the (one of many) goal of finding solid decks on an old boat, and I was not disappointed.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

But whatever you do, do not leave port until you have mounted the ivory tusks on your bar.

There are certain standards that must be maintained!

Will also make you real popular with customs officials in certain parts of Asia and Africa!

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

I'd stay away from screwed down teak decks too. But I wouldn't assume anything about an older fiberglass boat...The core wasn't bad on my 37 year old balsa cored deck. Not a single soft spot. And it wasn't bad on a lot of the boats I was looking at either (in the 'project boat' price range). I set out with the (one of many) goal of finding solid decks on an old boat, and I was not disappointed.

fair enough, but I'd just say I have found many with problems. When you see cracking around stanchions, beware.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by sneuman

You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.

So true what you say about stantion bases. I just shake my head when I see the way manufacturers knowingly mount a base that will fail in short order. My boat included.
My point about the teak decks were; you would not know if you have a problem under the teak into the core. Sounding the teak will not show bad core under the FG. However, bad core will show on a FG deck during sounding. On the older Choey Lee's, the teak was put directly over plywood. I mean...come on!

[Celestialsailor]

Another point about core is the type used. My 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37 had a ply core and had extensive de-lam. The reason so extensive was that water can migrate linearly (if that's a word) though the ply. When airex foam core gets wet, it rots. I have had to deal with that also. On a good end-grain balsa, the water intrusion is isolated to a degree because the grain is vertical and not linear (horizontal). So the water tends to stay put. This make the repair very small and easier.

[tropicalescape]

my boat is as solid as a rock ..no soft spots ,no oil canning,no leaks,I have one problem with the mast step but the FG is not cracked where it is a problem...she is 38 yrs.old and I would and did sail her the day I got her and she had sat abused and unused for 15 or more years...I cleaned her up with soap and water,put some fresh diesal in and sailed around for 3 days and 2 nights...I need to change the running rigging and get the instruments working and I will then sail her south and do a refit there...I recently bought a pearson 33 (1975) and it is in good shape also..I hope they dont fall apart after I get them to the ocean..anyone know if anything bad happens when you go from fresh to salt water,besides oxidation and rust issues?...DVC

[CharlieCobra]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Another point about core is the type used. My 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37 had a ply core and had extensive de-lam. The reason so extensive was that water can migrate linearly (if that's a word) though the ply. When airex foam core gets wet, it rots. I have had to deal with that also. On a good end-grain balsa, the water intrusion is isolated to a degree because the grain is vertical and not linear (horizontal). So the water tends to stay put. This make the repair very small and easier.

We did a Hunter 54 with core issues (end grain balsa) that had teak decks screwed in somewhere in the Carribean. It was a mess but not as bad as we feared.

[Celestialsailor]

Thanks for that Charlie. It sums up what how I think about teak decks and end grain balsa. No matter what core, de-lam is a hassle to deal with in any regard. My HR 35 is almost 38 years old. No teak decks and so far no problems. But you know I'm going to completely re-do those stupid stantions! I like to make the base and stantion, one (read welding) and not only attach it to the deck but the bulwarks also. A good idea I saw where a couple of Germans out cruising. Instead of the vinyl covered wire "life-lines", they had made solid ss tubing all the way around the boat. It was tastefully done. They told me..."hard to get on za boot, But, hard to get off za boot too"! I liked their thinking.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Thanks for that Charlie. It sums up what how I think about teak decks and end grain balsa. No matter what core, de-lam is a hassle to deal with in any regard. My HR 35 is almost 38 years old. No teak decks and so far no problems. But you know I'm going to completely re-do those stupid stantions! I like to make the base and stantion, one (read welding) and not only attach it to the deck but the bulwarks also. A good idea I saw where a couple of Germans out cruising. Instead of the vinyl covered wire "life-lines", they had made solid ss tubing all the way around the boat. It was tastefully done. They told me..."hard to get on za boot, But, hard to get off za boot too"! I liked their thinking.

A powerboat version!
I'm not sure why sailboats have wire safety lines and powerboats have tubing. Maybe for the weight or wave resistance but tube rails would be nice. I wonder what the cost difference is? I know one thing these days, the wire is not cheap anymore. Just for a new set of 4 gates (wire and swaged ends only, 18" each) it cost me $130. I can imagine for a whole boat. It's the ends and swaging that are the big expense.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

A powerboat version!
I'm not sure why sailboats have wire safety lines and powerboats have tubing. Maybe for the weight or wave resistance but tube rails would be nice. I wonder what the cost difference is? I know one thing these days, the wire is not cheap anymore. Just for a new set of 4 gates (wire and swaged ends only, 18" each) it cost me $130. I can imagine for a whole boat. It's the ends and swaging that are the big expense.

Cost of wire...expensive
Cost of tubing...expensive
Cost of unwanted crew going over-board?...priceless!