Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-12-2011, 23:55   #121
Guest
 
otherthan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 843
Images: 3
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoduck View Post
Charliecobra- Hell, I might as well just drill & tap and install new keel bolts next to the old ones - it would be easier than dropping the keel and I can do it in the water. I have a 1'' mag drill that ought to do the trick.
I thought by now someone had a way to x-ray through the keel at the hull /keel joint which is where all the waisting takes place.
Guess I'd better get busy.
keel steel or lead? bolts stainless, bronz, galvanise, silicone bronz?

personaly I would not drill other holes if not absolutly needed
__________________

__________________
otherthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 02:58   #122
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by jobi View Post
I have my hands full alredy
Your a better man than me Gungha Din



That's the sort of boat I was talking about earlier - to disassemble
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 03:54   #123
Registered User
 
Me-and-Boo's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 298
Images: 19
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
As a bit of a radical (?) alternative to jumping straight into a refurb project, especially if a Newbie to boats and / or a major refurb.......
Personally I would go for something wood, even on a rotten boat the odds are good that at least some of the wood will be recoverable (and likely of a quality that no longer readily available).........and if being adventurous, could even try and replace a few planks / ribs / part of the deck etc just to see how that goes
The yard where my boat is at has an old wood cruiser with missing wood. Her ribs are showing allowing viewing of all her systems: engine, plumbing, electrical, steering and more. You can see the various fastening techniques used to build her.

Last weekend a couple of men were breaking a Catalina sailboat. While they were cutting her I took some time to see how the systems were laid out. She was a smaller boat than mine I am sure much of what I saw applied to mine.
__________________
It didn't sink all the way - you can still see the mast
Me-and-Boo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 05:20   #124
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by w1651 View Post
...I wtill need to rebed the life line stancions as well as replace the lines with Dyneema or double braid poly lines. I also want to rebed the chain plates as well as add a good size plate to each under the deck...
i just finished doing all my lifelines in Dyneema and they look great. I used and highly recommend the Dynex Dux sold by these guys ...Colligomarine. Their video on the modified Brummel splice is excellent and easy to do.

To save a bit I ended up using my old turnbuckles and some stainless steel thimbels instead of their terminators and am quite satisfied.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 06:07   #125
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
For me the deal breaker is teak decks. There is no way of 100% knowing what is going on under them. I know I will piss off owners who have them, so I will apologize now...
You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 06:22   #126
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.
I'd stay away from screwed down teak decks too. But I wouldn't assume anything about an older fiberglass boat...The core wasn't bad on my 37 year old balsa cored deck. Not a single soft spot. And it wasn't bad on a lot of the boats I was looking at either (in the 'project boat' price range). I set out with the (one of many) goal of finding solid decks on an old boat, and I was not disappointed.
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 06:37   #127
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
But whatever you do, do not leave port until you have mounted the ivory tusks on your bar.

There are certain standards that must be maintained!
Will also make you real popular with customs officials in certain parts of Asia and Africa!
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 06:41   #128
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I'd stay away from screwed down teak decks too. But I wouldn't assume anything about an older fiberglass boat...The core wasn't bad on my 37 year old balsa cored deck. Not a single soft spot. And it wasn't bad on a lot of the boats I was looking at either (in the 'project boat' price range). I set out with the (one of many) goal of finding solid decks on an old boat, and I was not disappointed.
fair enough, but I'd just say I have found many with problems. When you see cracking around stanchions, beware.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 08:25   #129
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
You have to assume the core is bad with a 30-year-old teak deck, but then you have to assume the core is bad in a 30-year-old fiberglass, balsa cored deck, too. If the 1,000+ screws for the teak don't kill you, the flexing, cracking, stanchion bases will. The irony of some older boats (like my Tayana) is that the stanchions were done very smartly so they don't flex directly on the deck, but they still screwed down the teak decks. FAIL.
So true what you say about stantion bases. I just shake my head when I see the way manufacturers knowingly mount a base that will fail in short order. My boat included.
My point about the teak decks were; you would not know if you have a problem under the teak into the core. Sounding the teak will not show bad core under the FG. However, bad core will show on a FG deck during sounding. On the older Choey Lee's, the teak was put directly over plywood. I mean...come on!
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 08:34   #130
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Another point about core is the type used. My 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37 had a ply core and had extensive de-lam. The reason so extensive was that water can migrate linearly (if that's a word) though the ply. When airex foam core gets wet, it rots. I have had to deal with that also. On a good end-grain balsa, the water intrusion is isolated to a degree because the grain is vertical and not linear (horizontal). So the water tends to stay put. This make the repair very small and easier.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 09:13   #131
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

my boat is as solid as a rock ..no soft spots ,no oil canning,no leaks,I have one problem with the mast step but the FG is not cracked where it is a problem...she is 38 yrs.old and I would and did sail her the day I got her and she had sat abused and unused for 15 or more years...I cleaned her up with soap and water,put some fresh diesal in and sailed around for 3 days and 2 nights...I need to change the running rigging and get the instruments working and I will then sail her south and do a refit there...I recently bought a pearson 33 (1975) and it is in good shape also..I hope they dont fall apart after I get them to the ocean..anyone know if anything bad happens when you go from fresh to salt water,besides oxidation and rust issues?...DVC
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 09:22   #132
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Another point about core is the type used. My 1966 Tartan Blackwatch 37 had a ply core and had extensive de-lam. The reason so extensive was that water can migrate linearly (if that's a word) though the ply. When airex foam core gets wet, it rots. I have had to deal with that also. On a good end-grain balsa, the water intrusion is isolated to a degree because the grain is vertical and not linear (horizontal). So the water tends to stay put. This make the repair very small and easier.

We did a Hunter 54 with core issues (end grain balsa) that had teak decks screwed in somewhere in the Carribean. It was a mess but not as bad as we feared.
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 10:09   #133
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Thanks for that Charlie. It sums up what how I think about teak decks and end grain balsa. No matter what core, de-lam is a hassle to deal with in any regard. My HR 35 is almost 38 years old. No teak decks and so far no problems. But you know I'm going to completely re-do those stupid stantions! I like to make the base and stantion, one (read welding) and not only attach it to the deck but the bulwarks also. A good idea I saw where a couple of Germans out cruising. Instead of the vinyl covered wire "life-lines", they had made solid ss tubing all the way around the boat. It was tastefully done. They told me..."hard to get on za boot, But, hard to get off za boot too"! I liked their thinking.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 10:23   #134
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Thanks for that Charlie. It sums up what how I think about teak decks and end grain balsa. No matter what core, de-lam is a hassle to deal with in any regard. My HR 35 is almost 38 years old. No teak decks and so far no problems. But you know I'm going to completely re-do those stupid stantions! I like to make the base and stantion, one (read welding) and not only attach it to the deck but the bulwarks also. A good idea I saw where a couple of Germans out cruising. Instead of the vinyl covered wire "life-lines", they had made solid ss tubing all the way around the boat. It was tastefully done. They told me..."hard to get on za boot, But, hard to get off za boot too"! I liked their thinking.
A powerboat version!
I'm not sure why sailboats have wire safety lines and powerboats have tubing. Maybe for the weight or wave resistance but tube rails would be nice. I wonder what the cost difference is? I know one thing these days, the wire is not cheap anymore. Just for a new set of 4 gates (wire and swaged ends only, 18" each) it cost me $130. I can imagine for a whole boat. It's the ends and swaging that are the big expense.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2011, 10:29   #135
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
A powerboat version!
I'm not sure why sailboats have wire safety lines and powerboats have tubing. Maybe for the weight or wave resistance but tube rails would be nice. I wonder what the cost difference is? I know one thing these days, the wire is not cheap anymore. Just for a new set of 4 gates (wire and swaged ends only, 18" each) it cost me $130. I can imagine for a whole boat. It's the ends and swaging that are the big expense.
Cost of wire...expensive
Cost of tubing...expensive
Cost of unwanted crew going over-board?...priceless!
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cheap, DOJ, refit, Refurb

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale ! Hogan Engines and Propulsion Systems 432 13-12-2011 17:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.