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Old 14-12-2011, 07:39   #76
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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And drastic oversimplification, in any case. Sure, there are people that fit those extreme stereotypes, but most of us don't.
But nonetheless an element of truth. As you say, I suspect most people are somewhere inbetween the extremes, but that they also move along the curve (is it a curve? ).

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Even though I bitch and moan about having to work on the boat I often wonder if there is such a thing as a truly step aboard and sail away purchase - I.e. todo list = zip??
Probably not . Closest would probably be someone with an open cheque book for others to deal with (a bit outside this threads remit ) - but even on factory new / custom built will always be de-snagging to deal with.......
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Old 14-12-2011, 08:01   #77
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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On the KD 860, the designer quoted 1200(?) hours, which comes to about 3 years part time.

The major items on a boat that size may not be all that expensive.

I took about a year to built a ply 6.5m centreboarder a long time ago and did just that. All fittings were new. I don't remember it costing that much money.

It does look very nice, probably worth the extra.
7 1/2 hours a week?...No way! I think for anyone attempting such a feat would have to at least put in 15 hours a week. Of course that is assuming that the vessel is in warmer climate (or heated facility) and on the persons property.
I do about 5 hours during the week at home on boat stuff for the boat and 8-10 hours during the weekend.
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Old 14-12-2011, 08:44   #78
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I did an hour last night sanding the companionway for another coat of varnish. Tonight is church night so I can take a little break from it.
As far as two kinds of sailors.
Yes I have a refurb project going but I am going down to the yacht club this week to put up a crewing post on their board. They have a race to Mexico next year I want to be a part of. I can take vacation and do it.
And ask the motor boaters at the marina I'm in now what they thought about me sailing into (their) marina with no engine. They had really big eyes as I recall when they noticed me under sail headed past their 500,000 dollar power boats.
I was talking to another sailor last night that mentioned he was on a boat and remembered doing the same thing and backing the boat in under sail. I immediately said I want to learn that can you teach me how you did it? Sailing is learning all the time. Wether it's how to install a bulkhead or backing up with sails. You NEVER stop learning something new and that's what drew us to it.
I have been knocked down in a squall no one forecast, boarded by the coast guard when I didn't want, anchored off the skyway bridge just off the channel and watched the sun come up in the morning, and all on the same trip to the marina I'm in now.
If you refurb you don't sail...;-) That's funny. I'm in the middle of things on my boat. But don't worry I'll be out there soon being the menace to power boaters that I am!!!
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Old 15-12-2011, 17:55   #79
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I suspect you said it in jest, but what about recoring some deck??? I bought a boat this fall, knowing I had some recore ahead of me.
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Old 15-12-2011, 18:24   #80
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what other peoples thoughts are on this subject; it about what the buyer feels. While the thread is looking at older boats, I've seen people purchase new or newer boats and spend 100 G's on electronics and cruising toys. I still say the older boat is the best buy with some guidelines. The boat must pass a surveyor insurance and purchase examination, period. Go for the boat that has the most toys; therefore more bang for the buck. Look at detail. Is there a wiring diagram for every circuit in the boat? Is the log kept up to date? Is there an exact answer for when the oil was last changed? Is the bilge "clean", not painted over dirt? What's the quality of the rigging and if worn, is it repairable or does it have to be replaced? Have the digital updates been done to the electronics? Then there's the "what can I live with this very moment?" issues. Research, research, research. Does a Perkins engine leaking oil out a rear seal an issue? Does a Perkins engine leaking oil out a front seal an issue? Know the boat before you buy it. Ultimately I believe out of all the "junk" on the market, there's always a gem hidden amongst the toadstools.
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Old 15-12-2011, 21:52   #81
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Does a Perkins engine leaking oil out a rear seal an issue? Does a Perkins engine leaking oil out a front seal an issue?
If a Perkins doesn't leak oil...it's out of oil !
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Old 16-12-2011, 06:20   #82
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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If a Perkins doesn't leak oil...it's out of oil !
LOL, that was my point. Yet some would consider this a deal breaker or at least problematic while missing an obvious condition (far more serious an issue) like frozen seacocks.
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Old 16-12-2011, 07:07   #83
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

For me the deal breaker is teak decks. There is no way of 100% knowing what is going on under them. I know I will piss off owners who have them, so I will apologize now...
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Old 16-12-2011, 07:44   #84
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

What makes you think it's any easier trying to find out whats going on under fiberglass decks?
Unless they are solid, You're having a pipe dream!
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Old 16-12-2011, 08:04   #85
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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What makes you think it's any easier trying to find out whats going on under fiberglass decks?
Unless they are solid, You're having a pipe dream!
Bounce up and down on them. If owner looks worried - he knows.......
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Old 16-12-2011, 08:59   #86
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

One place to look for "inexpensive" boats is with charities. Some are specific, such as the Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating (CRAB) others may end up with a boat or two as donations.
Disclaimer I bought my C30 from CRAB, good price and she had been a Great Lakes boat most of her life; solid hull and deck.

My refit is to get her on the water first and then do interior work. Not much can't be done with her bobbing around.

The most important piece of advice I ever received was that all free advice has a price somewhere down the line.
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Old 16-12-2011, 11:37   #87
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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I bought a wood boat because I like wood and hate fiberglass. I have built several steel & aluminum boats and dont like them either.
I thought about buying a cement boat because it was so cheap, I could add it to the underwater state park when I was done with my summer fun. I still dive so I could enjoy it for years to come and it wouldnt cost me a dime. I wouldnt have any trouble deep sixing an old worn out steel boat either.
Wood boats are a passion and they are cheap but dont buy one unless you can keep on top of it. But if its cheap enough - sail it to Mexico, have some fun and give it away when you're done with it.
I did this back in 1966. I bought an old 25' folk boat for $250. Sailed down to the Sea of Cortez for 6 months, had a bawl, gave it to a kid and went home before it got too hot. This is what I should do now but I like my old teak ketch too much to get rid of it yet. Maybe next year?
man that is so cool..give a kid a boat..i love it...
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Old 16-12-2011, 19:24   #88
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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What makes you think it's any easier trying to find out whats going on under fiberglass decks?
Unless they are solid, You're having a pipe dream!
Sounds like you've never experienced soft decks then...so I'll explain it to you. If water gets into the core of the deck (usually through a fastener, LIKE ONE FROM A TEAK DECK), over time the core softens and delaminates from the F/G. When sounded from a plastic mallet, a dull thud is heard rather than a crisp tap. With teak over-lay, the sound(s) cannot be heard. Sorry no pipe dream. I have repaired lots of de-lam'd decks...
...yours truly, Pipe Dreamer
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Old 17-12-2011, 10:08   #89
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

"On the other hand, I knew someone who bought a big strong boat that needed lots of work, they did nothing to it and went cruising. The deck core was so wet that it was visibly buckled up in spots. The Perkins was old with many hours, but ran well. When they were done cruising about 3 years, they sold the boat for ~ the same they paid! I think they were smarter than many of us!! " said by Cheechako in post #17.

I'm afraid you have a very valid point. When I bought my Cal 34 about 8 years ago, there was nothing substantial wrong with her; only had a depth gauge, compass and VHF; tired old mainsail, soft spot on cabin, original upholstery. Since then I've spent more hours refurbing than sailing. I admit I may be the type sailor who enjoys refurbing almost (?) as much as sailing, but in hindsight I could have just sailed her as-is and saved myself thousands of $. But once we have a boat, there is some "pull" some sense of the romance of sailing, that compels us to bring the boats back to their original beauty. And I am betting many boats being rehabbed by us could have followed the quoted example. Thoughts?
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Old 17-12-2011, 10:12   #90
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Yachting: The art of fixing a sailboat in exotic places.

Great thread, good experiences, lots to think about. Thanks to all contributors.
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