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Old 16-06-2014, 19:22   #511
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy_Vagner View Post
Thanks Ann and Ex-Calif for your prompt replies.

It's good to know that it is still possible and three months for me is no problem as I took nearly a year to renovate my last boat, LOL.

I would like to work alongside them and learn by watching and helping as and when my "workmanship" won't spoil the finished job. I guess that leaves blowing the sawdust away from the pencil line while they are sawing and making coffee.

So I'll start collecting photographs of how I would like it to look.

Can you give me an approximate idea of cost? I expect to buy something in the 36 to 44 foot range and my interior layout will be about the same as the Tayana/Mão Ta, etc. lookalikes, preferably in Mahogany.

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Cost? How long is a piece of string - LOL...


This is all pretty much a wild guess on my part but...

General Labor - ~$10-15 per day X 3-X laborers X 6 days/week
Supervisor - $20-30 / hour - 2 hours a day (minimum)

Materials
Teak or mahogany - (wild guess) $3-4,000 dollars
Incidentals - $1,000

Boat storage - $400 month

Project duration
4-5 months

Let's say Phuket - You have to add your hotel ($30/day) and living expenses $30-$50 day depending on you...

You should be able to throw all that in a spreadsheet and get a reasonable idea. I may be over estimating a bit but really it isn't going to be "cheap/cheap."

It is after all a brand new teak/mahogany interior and these folks know what the "western" value of that is.

The savings are really in the labor and the fact that you can still get (reasonably) the hard woods that are becoming ever more scarce.
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Old 16-06-2014, 19:47   #512
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
...the topic is older and cheaper (to buy) boats......... as my take is that folk who go down the boat refurb route generally do so for financial reasons (like not having the $$$ in the bank from the getgo )...
although most boats (that still fall within the term "refurb" rather than "resurrection" ) probably could be sorted out within 3 - 6 months of full time work, I suspect that most would be a multi year project simply because of the need to work to fund the project!...
OP's original post got me thinking about the characters one finds on the waterfront, working on their old boats because they haven't the $ to buy a completed/fully operational boat. So, instead of sailing, they're working on a multi-year project. I can identify with that.

I suppose, if we were smart enough, we'd have used that intelligence to make a pile of $ so we could afford to just go sailing. But there must also be another reason for this.

There is the satisfaction that comes from working on boats which derives from the doing. And, in the doing, the repairing and refurbishing, the learning about so many new skills, something rubs off onto us, an intangible benefit that comes from challenges met and a job well done.
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Old 16-06-2014, 19:49   #513
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Hi Ex-Calif,

Thanks again for the time you spent replying to my question.

Regarding the length of a piece of string, that is easy: "twice it's half!".

But seriously, I needed an approximate value and it is within my expectations/budget, especially since boats with a DIY interior have a much lower resale value.

I don't want to mention the boat I'm interested in as the owner might read these posts and be offended.

Cheers
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Old 16-06-2014, 20:15   #514
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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There is nothing like getting a certain job done, even if it isn't the one you had been planning to do on a given day.

For instance, this weekend, we went to the boat, intending to remove a rotting support from under a settee, go buy a new one, and replace it. After an hour or two, my husband had determined what he needed to actually remove the board once his original plan fell through. At this point, we had the option of sending one of us out shopping for the lumber and some electrical supplies, including half an hour back to the house to get additional tools, or moving on to another project. We chose plan B and were so satisfied at the end of the day to have completed something! The other project will still get done, and more efficiently, since I will buy supplies this week and we will take the tools with us, thus making the most of our weekend hours.
You made an excellent point here. This is the same approach we take and it has happened to us on a number of occasions. Our boat is in a boatyard 45 minutes from our house and nowhere near a decent source of marine parts and supplies. So if we get to the boat yard and find we are missing a tool or part we need, the better part of a day can be wasted getting things together to do what we had originally planned. But we carry most of our boat working tools in our truck bed (if we didn't remove something during the week to do another project and forget to put it back....usually me....usually the source of the problem) we can always find another project that we are equipped to do.

I figure that our to do list is so long and everything on it has to get done eventually. I call it "eating an elephant." Even though it's big and overwhelming at times, you still take it one bite at a time. As long as something on the list gets done you've taken a few bites of elephant and there is less left to eat.
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Old 16-06-2014, 21:34   #515
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Originally Posted by Freddy_Vagner View Post
......especially since boats with a DIY interior have a much lower resale value.
I disagree. In my experience boats with shoddily put together interiors have a lower resale value. I have seen and worked on half a dozen boats with DIY interiors that were better than most yards build.
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Old 16-06-2014, 21:53   #516
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I've tried using the search function without any joy but I have not seen any posts regarding refitting/maintenance issues of steel vs aluminium vs wood vs GRP.
Any generalisation, esp about costs and difficulties. ?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 16-06-2014, 23:47   #517
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

What a superb thread. I'm just closing the deal on a refurb boat and now I find this pot of gold! It's taking me ages to take it all in and I've only reached half way through the thread.

The boat is in northern France which means a ferry trip from UK each weekend but it does mean no distractions when on site and the marina fees are low. I need a new ply/glass deck, standing/running rigging and seacocks before she can be moved.

I've got two weekends on site then a holiday in Singapore after which the project will start for real.

Please keep the posts coming, I've no doubt I'll be asking for advice.

Cheers,

Paul
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Old 07-07-2014, 14:35   #518
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
OP's original post got me thinking about the characters one finds on the waterfront, working on their old boats because they haven't the $ to buy a completed/fully operational boat. So, instead of sailing, they're working on a multi-year project. I can identify with that.

I suppose, if we were smart enough, we'd have used that intelligence to make a pile of $ so we could afford to just go sailing. But there must also be another reason for this.

There is the satisfaction that comes from working on boats which derives from the doing. And, in the doing, the repairing and refurbishing, the learning about so many new skills, something rubs off onto us, an intangible benefit that comes from challenges met and a job well done.
[True. Intimacy is the most valuable item in any relationship. One must know all the factors that may influence dangerous future situations. Never trust what someone else specifies until verified.]
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Old 07-07-2014, 14:55   #519
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I'm ready for a new older longer larger boat. hehehehehehehe
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Old 31-07-2014, 04:25   #520
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Advice please
I am in the process of making a marine ply bulkhead to carry the weight of a stove/oven I want to fit to my boat. I dont have a lot of fiberglassing experience.
I think I place some foam between the Hull and the bulkhead and fiberglass tape the sides . Would this be the correct assumption to make. whaty Id like to know what foam to use. The stove weights in at around 22 KG and Ive made my bulkheads out of 18 mm marine ply ( probably on the heavier side )
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Old 31-07-2014, 04:50   #521
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I presume in photo 1 you are showing the larger cut out where the stove will fit and the smaller cutout is where the sinks are going to go? In photo 2 you have a plywood board and the sinks in place to show the persepective of how this fits with the oven cut out?

If I've got that right it appears to me that the wall thickness of the fiberglass insert is quite thin.

If I were doing this I would be looking to create some hard points to frame in the cabinetry.

I would use something like 1X2 inch hardwood and create a longitudinal stringer up under the back (outboard) of the insert such that the height allows me to attach inboard running rails. I would look at the bottom inboard end of the cutout to put in another longitudinal stringer.

I would tack them in place with something like 5200 and then I would fiberglass in place. Now I have 2 stringers.

Next I would look at the aft and forward walls and determine if these are strong enough to support the framing as I would tie the framing rails into those bulkheads.

Once you have a support system to support framing, I would frame it in with simple dado joints, screw & glue and you're there.

I don't see the need for foaming anything in. I'll be doing some similar type stuff on my refit over the coming month or so.
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Old 31-07-2014, 04:52   #522
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

The best foam to use is coring foam. The thickness only needs to be around 8-10 mm and it's really only used to set the gap. The tabbing, if thick enough should carry the load.

Different boats have more flex/twist then others due to hull/deck construction. And it also depends on where the bulkhead will go. Most flexing goes on amidships where it carries the keel and mast mounts, the widest part. The narrow ends tend to be more stable. Some bulkheads actually reinforce the hull if tabbed all the way around. But for a one sided mount like a stove you don't really need much gap.

When a boat takes a hit like from another boat, a log or even cresting a wave is when that gap does it's job. The tabbing acts like a spring to keep from crushing the bulkhead and allows the hull to twist naturally w/o creating a hard spot.
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Old 31-07-2014, 05:03   #523
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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The best foam to use is coring foam. The thickness only needs to be around 8-10 mm and it's really only used to set the gap. The tabbing, if thick enough should carry the load.

Different boats have more flex/twist then others due to hull/deck construction. And it also depends on where the bulkhead will go. Most flexing goes on amidships where it carries the keel and mast mounts, the widest part. The narrow ends tend to be more stable. Some bulkheads actually reinforce the hull if tabbed all the way around. But for a one sided mount like a stove you don't really need much gap.

When a boat takes a hit like from another boat, a log or even cresting a wave is when that gap does it's job. The tabbing acts like a spring to keep from crushing the bulkhead and allows the hull to twist naturally w/o creating a hard spot.
Shes an old H28 full keel solid fiberglass deck and hull
I want to recess the stove back as far as I can to create a L shape galley stove area and fix a floor inside the area as well
Id like to use this basic design on the right hand side in mirror reverse
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Old 31-07-2014, 05:34   #524
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

The thing to remember with a gimbaling stove is the pivot mounts are what takes all the stress and give yourself plenty of flex gas hose w/o wear spots or pinch points.
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Old 31-07-2014, 05:41   #525
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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The thing to remember with a gimbaling stove is the pivot mounts are what takes all the stress and give yourself plenty of flex gas hose w/o wear spots or pinch points.
This is a Paraffin (Kero) stove / oven made in UK Taylor 030
The one below is a 028 slightly smaller I will be adding wooden blocks for the gimbals to mount on similar to this one
Only Ill place my gimbals on top of the wooden blocks
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