Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

[GrowleyMonster]

Refurbing an old boat is not an event. It's not even a process. It is a state of existence.

[boatman61]

Maintaining an old cruising boat is simple.. start at the aft port side and work your way forward.. then back down the starb'd side and across the stern.. then take a day off
Start port aft side...

[w1651]

When you buy a car as soon as you leave the lot it drops in value. What makes a boat any different. When it's on the hard at the factory it's new. When they hand you the payment book or you hand them the first check. You just lost money.
Want to save money don't buy a boat. Want to have fun make great friends and see the possibly world. Have at it brother.

[Freddy_Vagner]

My two cents:

First of all fix the cabin roof and decks, so they don't leak and then make the interior nice and comfortable if you are planning to sleep/live aboard while working on the rest of the boat. Living in a messy "tool shed" is tiring and you are going to need as much energy as possible to work on the never-ending "to do" list. This also has the advantage of avoiding rain damage/dry rot and your family will appreciate having somewhere pleasant to stay while you are busy doing all the hard work.

With all due regard to safety of course, get the boat into the water and sailing ASAP so you can have some fun while you work on the cosmetic stuff.

Working on your boat is the best, if not the only way, to learn how to fix/jury rig anything that might break while underway.

Think seriously whether you should postpone buying your boat, in order to save up more cash and buy something in better shape...

[Freddy_Vagner]

Regarding the question of whether to buy and renovate a project boat or spend more and buy something "ready to sail" (Yeah, I know boats always need some work!):

I am currently saving up for my next boat and have renovated a wooden project boat in the past. It was a very satisfying/enjoyable/frustrating/terrible nightmarish job (depending on the day) and a very valuable learning experience, but something that I don't really want to do again. Note that I'm not saying don't do it, looking back I'm very glad I did.

From a purely financial perspective however, I'm looking at a beautiful 40 foot wooden project boat I could probably buy for 10K. Great! However, I'm also interested in a slightly larger fiberglass boat which is also very lovely for an asking price of 25K and advertized as "in excellent condition and ready to sail". So the difference is only 15K at the most and the latter sailboat also has far more goodies, like working electronics, spare sails, dinghy, davits, etc., all expensive of course and should be added to the price of the "cheaper" boat as these will all have to be bought sometime in the future.

Well I won't labor the point as I guess by now that you can see what I'm trying to say. I have decided to put off buying the first boat I can afford and wait to save up more cash and buy something requiring less work.

[Canibul]

We'll no doubt have more opinions eventually. We're only two years into this boat at the moment.

[Freddy_Vagner]

Great blog!

Thanks for some enjoyable reading and loved all the photos and your JRT.

Is that your project "older boat"? Looks brand new to me, LOL.

[captain58sailin]

I am biased, I like older boats. The work and refit is part of the process and price you pay for having an older boat. Once done (kind of) you will know every last part of your boat intimately which can mean the difference between life and death in an emergency. You have to start with a solid base and work your way up from there. I differ from boatman on where to start, starting forward and working aft is another way to go. I start with the propulsion systems (fuel, cooling, engine, reduction gear, shaft, stuffing box, propeller, etc...) then work my way out to essentials for living, electrical, fresh water, cooking, refrigeration. This is assuming you don't have an integrity problem and water ingress, if so stop the water from coming in even if it is temporary due to climate considerations.

[Freddy_Vagner]

Must confess that I didn't do this when I was renovating my project boat, but should have (do as I say not as I do):

Make a list of everything that needs to be done (even though you will find lots more once the project is underway).

Then use GANTT charts (Google these if you are unfamiliar with them) or your simplified version of them. This will help you to focus on priorities.

My personal priority would be getting the boat into the water and sailing again ASAP. My son's personal priority was rewiring the foghorn to his immense satisfaction until all the complaints put an end to his fun...

Another system I did use and worked pretty well when things became overwhelming was to divide the jobs into things I liked doing and things I didn't like doing. Then every time I spent time doing something I didn't like doing I would reward myself with a fun job. Maybe that sounds a little silly, but I'm sure some people who have been through this experience will know exactly what I mean!

[Greenhand]

There is nothing like getting a certain job done, even if it isn't the one you had been planning to do on a given day.

For instance, this weekend, we went to the boat, intending to remove a rotting support from under a settee, go buy a new one, and replace it. After an hour or two, my husband had determined what he needed to actually remove the board once his original plan fell through. At this point, we had the option of sending one of us out shopping for the lumber and some electrical supplies, including half an hour back to the house to get additional tools, or moving on to another project. We chose plan B and were so satisfied at the end of the day to have completed something! The other project will still get done, and more efficiently, since I will buy supplies this week and we will take the tools with us, thus making the most of our weekend hours.

[JPA Cate]

Greenhand,

Good on ya. Progress is being made. FWIW, I like what Freddy_Vagner wrote, especially about building in little rewards along the way. And deckofficer's view of considering it all as systems to be addressed, and in a particular order, makes great sense, too, as long as the water ingress is not present.

Ann

[Freddy_Vagner]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Greenhand,

Good on ya. Progress is being made. FWIW, I like what Freddy_Vagner wrote, especially about building in little rewards along the way. And deckofficer's view of considering it all as systems to be addressed, and in a particular order, makes great sense, too, as long as the water ingress is not present.

Ann

Thanks Ann!

Here is something I have been wondering about for some time now:

I am currently looking for my next sailboat and have seen many that at first sight looked great, but the photos of the interior were disappointing. So the question is:

Is there anywhere in the world, probably somewhere in Asia, where the locals can remove 75+% of the interior "joinery" and Formica, then replace it with some beautiful professional cabinetry with that oldie-worldie feel of a classic yacht and at an affordable price?

If anybody has done this already, please let me know an idea of the costs involved. TKS

[JPA Cate]

Freddy,

Have seen some very nice refitting done in teak in Thailand. Not near as inexpensive as it used to be. And the best work that was being done was where the boat owner worked alongside the men, as pride kept them working well. So, IMO, it would really depend on how much work you like and how deep your pockets are.

Did you notice the new 1970 Morgan 50 advertised here on CF? What a deal for the right buyer!

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Greenhand

<snip>
At this point, we had the option of sending one of us out shopping for the lumber and some electrical supplies, including half an hour back to the house to get additional tools, or moving on to another project. We chose plan B and were so satisfied at the end of the day to have completed something! The other project will still get done, and more efficiently, since I will buy supplies this week and we will take the tools with us, thus making the most of our weekend hours.

Don't underestimate the "shopping hours" - I am finding out that at this point in my project it's a day of shopping for each day of work. If you only have the weekend this can kill you. Here a lot of places are shut on weekends.

The idea of having multiple projects helps. Get stuck for parts on one - list what you need and do something else. Lunch hours and "sneaking off in afternoons is vital for me at present.

I am getting quite a collection of stuff I am sure I won't need. But I am erring on the side of, "get some of that as I will likely need it."

Yesterday I went to 3 places just trying to source 16g and 14g marine wire. I can get 30 feet or so at the chandlery (at almost $1/ft. But I need like 3-400 feet each of different colors. One shop wants to order it from teh US and get it to me in a couple of weeks.

The last guy asked for an "email" order and says he has it in stock - hmmm...

Originally Posted by Freddy_Vagner

Thanks Ann!

<snip>

Is there anywhere in the world, probably somewhere in Asia, where the locals can remove 75+% of the interior "joinery" and Formica, then replace it with some beautiful professional cabinetry with that oldie-worldie feel of a classic yacht and at an affordable price?

If anybody has done this already, please let me know an idea of the costs involved. TKS

Yes - Thailand does great work and you can still get teak and mahogany. The further off the beaten path you go the cheaper you can get it.

However the universal opinion seems to be that you need to supervise yourself or have a project manager (usually a westerner) in order to keep the project on schedule. This makes it even more expensive.

Malaysia is coming up nicely and you can get cheaper work in many parts of Malaysia now.

You are faced with leaving your boat on the hard, leaving and hoping it gets done on time. Or staying and supervising the project for 2-3 months. Westerners always have a speed expectation that does not match Asia reality. What would take a month in the US is likely 2-3 months in Asia.

[Freddy_Vagner]

Thanks Ann and Ex-Calif for your prompt replies.

It's good to know that it is still possible and three months for me is no problem as I took nearly a year to renovate my last boat, LOL.

I would like to work alongside them and learn by watching and helping as and when my "workmanship" won't spoil the finished job. I guess that leaves blowing the sawdust away from the pencil line while they are sawing and making coffee.

So I'll start collecting photographs of how I would like it to look.

Can you give me an approximate idea of cost? I expect to buy something in the 36 to 44 foot range and my interior layout will be about the same as the Tayana/Mão Ta, etc. lookalikes, preferably in Mahogany.

TKS