Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

[Azul]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Rewiring is something I sort of feel qualified to do, but then again, not really. Does anyone know what the going rate would be to rewire, stem to stern, a 37ish boat?

Roughly $3500. Give or take $3500 (DIY vs making it really complicated.)

[MacG]

When hauling "Neala" out of the water, it became clear that she was in for a small refit annex paint job.

I didn't like the blue Hempel colour and 2 bad seasons made it well understood that a visit to the shed was overdue. I also wanted to install the transducers for the new Log & Dephth, also the masts could use some new running rigging.

After 2 weeks grinding Neala was ready for her new colour: RAL 7043 combined with a special made waterline. It was a thrill to see her new coat and also the mast will be sprayed in the colour of the hull.

Thanks to the team of my little shipyard at Leiden, the homeport of Neala.

[DiverChick71]

I am sort of glad that I didn't find this thread a couple months ago, before we bought Mongojo. I've only read the first few pages, but I love the references to psychology. Seems to be true...very much of this refurbing a boat is about what personality traits you bring to the table. We aren't very experienced sailors but knew we wanted a boat. We bring determined personalities, a couple both in it for the long haul, good jobs and lots of time off (I work 7 on 7 off. It's perfect for boat work.)

We bought a fixer upper. Had been repowered in 2001 and had some things we really liked. (opening bronze ports (not stock in this boat) A huge V-berth and roomy pilot berth. We really thought long and hard about the "what are we likely to do" thing vs. the "What I want to do" and realized coastal cruising from here down to the canal and through the Bahamas and Caribbean was our main goal. Under 5 ft draft. A boat with solid bones that needed work. OF course there is deck work, couldn't be that good. But felt like we had a reasonable price. Our priorities are fixing the deck problems, doing some other cabin repair, replacing running rigging and making sure standing rigging is solid. Keeping engine running. Get ground tackle up to snuff. Make sure sails are ok. Then start sailing and have the time to fix whatever....whenever.
After reading the first couple pages, I asked my bf "Are we crazy??" He said, "About cruising??" I said "No...about fixing up a boat!" He shrugged and said, "Well...too late now." So I guess we'll see how it goes.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by DiverChick71

I am sort of glad that I didn't find this thread a couple months ago, before we bought Mongojo.

Yeah, plusses and minuses to being forewarned .

But likely most who succeed ask themselves lots of good questions anyway. Much of the benefit of this thread comes from the repetition of points from multiple sources.....that, and not being alone .

Although perhaps not so applicable to you - I have commented before that boat refurbishing is the male equivalent of child birth! A) it don't look that hard B) during the process you swear never again and C) time fades the memory for many.......and they do it again .

[captain58sailin]

Someone I once knew told me that men do these things because we are unable to give birth, so it is our attempt at creation. So we are just a bunch of frustrated mothers.

[Roy M]

Asking how much to rewire a boat is pretty open-ended. You need to establish parameters. How big will the battery bank(s) be? How many DC circuits will there be? Will there be any AC circuits (and will these be supplied by an inverter)? Does the boat have easy access to the wiring routes, or will it mean tearing the boat apart to remove the old wiring and establish new wire runs? Do you want the wiring to pass ABYC standards (your insurance might require this)? Will you be providing for alternative power generation (generator, solar panels, wind power)? Are you already set up with adequate high output alternator(s). Are you considering high demand electrical items (reefer, freezer, bow thruster, windlass, electric winches, etc.)? Have you considered that things might change in the next decade, and will this require more remodeling? Answer these questions before you start asking installation costs.

[MacG]

I think there is a difference in approach of such issues as rewiring a boat. I go for what I need and use sufficient sources to make life on board comfortable.
I did rewire my boat during the last months and separated each system. Solar and wind are no options so I have shore power and a heavy genset, including an inverter powered by a separate 200 amps battery, that provides service power as well. 100 amps will feed the engine and another 100 amps is installed as a reserve.
The Cetrek batterycharger can load 2 batteries at a time. Another one services the 200 amps when connected to shorepower and can be switched to the genset of 6 kW.
A bitt overkill, but more is better than less.

[Vino the Dog]

Just found this thread!

Now entering ninth month of pretty much full time work on refitting my CT-41 Ketch. Will share experience with you. I found a boat pretty much exactly what I wanted. Love these traditional Garden design Taiwan 70's boats and knew about all the "leaky teaky" horror stories. Also a pretty good craftsman and know a few things that prevented being scared off by the nay-sayers:

1. Few people have the skills and perseverance to complete an extensive refit.
2. If you don't have the skills to do the job, you also don't have the skills to figure out what it will take when you are looking at a boat to buy.
3. Those who hate these boats usually are #1 and #2 (or people who just like fiberglass and formica interiors and trim better than old-growth Teak, which is OK)

I got my boat as a home, business location, and destined world cruiser. She still has teak decks, all teak interior, wood masts, and a MD21 that was rebuilt 10 years ago and never left the dock. I did NOT want a turn-key boat because I like doing craftsmanship and wanted to do the refit so when I get offshore, will know my boat well enough to keep her sound. With a turnkey boat, one sails on a vessel you know nothing about expect the surface stuff. Fine for people who can hire $100+ labor or don't intend long term live aboard.

When I got her, Mystique was in excellent general condition for an older CT/Formosa compared to many others I looked at. Still required 9 months and counting to get her ready to sail.

Roy M is very correct about open ended project to re-wire a cruising boat. Took me at least 3 months to do the job on a boat in good condition, and I know about wiring (ran solar electric business 12 years, designed and built many electric cars before industry started marketing hybrids, ET US Navy too long ago to count much beyond the principles, and done houses). Unless you have LOTS of money, it is not possible to hire one of those $100 per hour "professionals" to do a proper job for you because it would simply be cost prohibitive. There are, of course, good ones worth their money, but they are like finding an honest lawyer. If you are going to do it yourself and have never done such a thing, read a lot and plan on taking as long as it takes. Work systematically taking notes and labeling EVERYTHING you do. Call in the $100 per hour guy if you have to, but find one who is willing to consult with you on tricky parts rather than doing the whole job. Most of rewiring is menial labor, not brain surgery - it is the connections where you have to know what you are doing. Do not be frustrated if it takes a whole day or even longer to run ONE wire! ...and there are hundreds.

There is a blog on my refit of Mystique if this message includes my signature line.

For a craftsman, it is a wonderful project. For the impatient, don't even think about it.

Post would not include signature, so here is my blog site:
http://www.slvanronk.com/joomla/inde...iling-mystique

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Vino the Dog

Just found this thread!

Now entering ninth month of pretty much full time work on refitting my CT-41 Ketch. Will share experience with you....
Sailing Mystique

Vino, everything you said is bang-on and exactly what I think.
Nice boat you have - I'll check your work from time to time.
Good luck on your project.

[GreyBeardVA]

From a newbie. What resources would be recommended for refit supplies / parts as well as recommended reading (obviously, in addition to this forum).
For example, if I wanted to refit a galley where would I go for cabinets, counters, etc. I'm assuming that these items are not the same as household items.

Thanks

[fkittson]

When it come to supply's like cabinets and counters unless you are working on a large motor yacht every thing is going to need to be templates and custom built. As well home grade items are not meant for hi-moisture environment. Everything must have space from the hull so that you don't create hard spots as well as provide room for expansion. I've seen to many people use home depo crap in a boat and a year later it is garbage. If you can build it yourself you will save yourself a lot of money and headaches.

[zeehag]

vino--awesome!!--do you have pix of your project yet--i would love to see what you have done..i am still refitting mine while underway as these big bricks are almost invince-able...great sailing barges and wonderful in biiig winds!!! you will sooo love cruising her!!!!

please post pix!!!

[Roy M]

GreybeardVA, get a copy of Nigel Calder's book, BOATOWNERS MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL MANUAL. It is the best single text I can think of for your needs. Start to build a real working toolkit, compact and good quality. Be careful, because tools are costly, heavy, and can be damaged by the same conditions your boat normally lives in. Go online and read this publication (and any others by this company): http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf. You should learn as much about using epoxy resin as possible. It is probably the single-most important repair material that you will need on a boat. Lastly, because boats are a large collection of systems, each having greater and lesser priorities, you will be drawn in several directions simultaneously. Make a list of what needs to be done, prioritize the things to do, and do them one at a time (at first!) so you don't get to the place where everything is torn apart and you lose track of how it goes back together. Good luck!

P.S.: You probably won't have much use of a builder's square, other than making drawers. You might want to get a boat carpenter to help you rough out your cabinetry. Then, you can do the most time-consuming part: details and finishing. Don't try to become a shipwright in a year or two.

[Vino the Dog]

GreybeardVA,
I think you just hit on the best resource you can find... this list! You will use it extensively to find people to direct you to one of the most complicated tasks you will ever do (depending of course on how extensively your refit is). I second Roy M's suggestion on Nigel Calder's book and tool kit suggestions. You will also need many other books as well and tools for several trades.

A good marine surplus place will save you lots of money, but know what you are shopping for as some charge as much for used crap as buying new from a good chandler. Unless you find cabinets from a boat EXACTLY like yours, nothing will come close to fitting. Previous owner of mine used lots of Home Depot garbage, which is much of what I had to tear out and replace. Beneath the deteriorated Home Depot crap, I found perfectly good teak, stainless steel, and 38 year old wiring, all still in excellent condition, that was installed by the Chinese guys who built the boat. Almost everything I had to replace was done by Americans after the boat came here because of poor installation and inferior materials. I have found some rot in difficult places, but all resulting from poor maintenance, not poor original construction.

I am just now starting on my galley remodel. Did not like the layout because it had the sink and diesel cook stove crammed below the starboard deck. I will build each piece, first out of cardboard for a template, then cut marine grade plywood which uses waterproof glue. Even so, sealing the edges is important for durability.

I WILL use tile, mastic, some construction adhesives, some stainless, brass, or plastic parts from home supply places to save some money, but be sure you know what you are looking at. For example, brass hinges from Home Depot are usually NOT brass, but brass plated steel that will fall apart and is sub standard. Some newer technology stuff, like PEX for water piping can hold up to a marine environment and I am not afraid of automotive grade electrical wiring, but not automotive terminals unless they are in a place that is guaranteed to be protected from moisture and shrink tubing is used to seal the ends of crimp terminals.

In my boat, there are bulkheads fiberglassed in to the hull in some places, other areas have space. I am not going to second guess Bill Garden's design expertise or the craftsmanship of Mr. Chen Chiao Tsan - they are both much better at their trade than I am. I suspect the areas where bulkheads are glassed in were intentional and intended to stiffen that part of the hull. Keep in mind every boat is different. A 28,000 pound 1975 CT-41 is far stiffer hull than a later model American made fiberglass production boat, so the action of glassing in a bulkhead has a whole different effect on the boat. Learn you own boat.

I hate to say this, but asking a question as generalized as "What resources would be recommended for refit supplies / parts...", suggests that you may want to first inventory you own skills and understanding of the project. Make sure you are up to undertaking something far more difficult than just building a little house or rebuilding the motor in your car. Estimate between four and ten times the time you expect each task to take, and at least three times the cost if you want to do a good job.

Zee, nice to hear from you. I have some pictures on my blog link on my signature. Would love to hear your comments.

[Vino the Dog]

Hey Zee,
I have tried several times to sign up for the Leaky Teaky site, but it won't let me in. Have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?