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Old 03-03-2013, 18:08   #406
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Bought our Hurricnane Ivan damaged Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch and had it trucked to Muskegon Michigan. We were three years on the hard to get sea-worthy. We have spent about 60% of purchase to get it sailing. Lots of deferred maintenance as well as outright storm damage. We are close to ready to take it blue-water for retirement. It is not a shoestring budget but it is still less than Yachtworld listings by a lot. We have found and attacked some really large projects ourselves. New bottom, new centerboard, rebuild CG drive, re-build rudder, new battery banks and boxes, all new instruments BUY LAST, new sails, repair sails, strip and paint spars, add solar, re-build all deck hatches, new toe and splash rails, re-build prop shafe (pitted and worn undersize), new anchors, new stanchions and pulpits, drain and polish 5 fuel tanks, new fuel piping and valves, replace all IC with LED lighting, repair about 20 square feet of wet deck, re-finish a lot of interior wood and all drawers and doors, new AWL GRIP for the exterior sides, white epoxy paint all interior storage spaces, new titanium chain plates, rebuild all winches, re-pack teak decking in the cockpit.

There are still a lot of things on the list but the projects are smaller. I work at a custom machine bulder so I have access to high end milling machines and lathes as well as operators who work for beer.

Here is a great link for very special hardware. Be sure to check out the ARTIFACTS & INSTRUMENTS links. Paintings are nice but be sure to see the barometers and deck guns. Vallejo Maritime Gallery, Marine Arts and Artifacts, Maritime art, Marine paintings, Maritime gallery, Marine art, Maritime paintings, 20th century marine art. HINT when you ask, "how much is that?" The response will be, "how much you got?"
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Old 03-03-2013, 18:31   #407
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Before and after from my re-build.
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Old 03-03-2013, 18:32   #408
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Before and after.
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Old 21-03-2013, 22:21   #409
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

okay all, as a real green newbie let me pose the question.. I have autobody/fiberglass repair skills, a history of REAL auto mechanics skills and tooling, am currently a gunsmith and will have full access to a working machine shop( metal lathes/milling machines/surface grinders, etc..) I am looking at a cape dory 27.. it currently floats, has newish sales and an atomic 4( any greasemonkey/sailor wanna tell me if it really is an old iron duke?).. my plan is to pull it, strip the outside for new barrier coats, paints, et. remove and glass over some thru hulls and put her back in the water for finishing the floating rehab. so what exterior, or interior work needs done on the hard before I refloat her?? I don't know anything about sailing, but am planning on coastal cruising/ liveaboard(solo) off the florida coast.. oh and by the way.. the boats selling for under 3000
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Old 21-03-2013, 22:23   #410
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

oh and just an ad hoc.. I am looking at a 10k budget upfront,
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Old 21-03-2013, 22:37   #411
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Mad gunny, you might think long and hard before you glass over thru hulls while you are hauled. There might be a few places where you could combine functions, but for the most part each thru hull has a purpose. Removing the heads for a portapotty has a place in life if you dont plan on doing any real cruising, but if you plan on doing any passage making ,a portapotty can be a very dangerous thing to deal with. ___Just my opinion,____Grant.
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Old 22-03-2013, 01:12   #412
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

the thru hulls I am looking to shed are for a saltwater rinse to the sink, a drain plug below the bilge?? and one for the head.. its all just on paper right now as I haven't bought the thing yet but what little sailing time I have was on a friends boat that was heeling nicely when we noticed this little gusher down in the cabin from the sink.. same set up, and I know there is a valve under the sinks you're supposed to shut off when not in use? but it seems like a really dumb way to sink a boat, as for the drain plug? I'm guessing that some former owner trailered the thing and used it to empty the bilge?? looks rather homemade( read shoddy).. the boat does have a salt water flush toilet and I was thinking about goin the porta potty route, but again, just thinkin..
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Old 22-03-2013, 01:44   #413
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Cape Dory 27s look to sell for $15k and up so first you gotta ask why this one is so cheap.

$3k on a reputable boat would not normally get much more than the hull and deck so I'd be guessing a complete rebuild.

Might as well put in a decent diesel while you're about it so you could be looking at a total refit.

I saw a few on the net with asking prices up to round $25k which would indicate that a total rebuild is going to be more than that.

Maybe 1500 or more hours but you could end up with a near new boat.

If the boat is useable then try it for a while to see how you feel about everything, then pull it out, sit it beside a workshop and do all work on the hard. Much easier.
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Old 22-03-2013, 01:55   #414
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

The drain plug is a garboard plug and drain. It is useful for keeping the bilges dry when on the hard, usually up north.

A porty potty gets old fast if you are more than a weekender.

Through hulls, properly done and double hose clamped, are probably as strong as the rest of the hull. Each has a purpose. If the sink fills on one tack try and re-locate the through hull closer to the center or close it when sailing. This is fairly common on smaller boats. Closing it off is an inconvenient solution though.
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Old 22-03-2013, 02:09   #415
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

boracay. I am wondering where you are getting the estimated values? I've seen several dory's around the 3-5k mark, granted I am not a boat person( yet) but they all float, have masts that stand upright, and all but one has a motor that supposedly runs? granted, the one I am looking at the owner says" starts first try, runs like new, recent overhaul" and the picture looks like he spray painted it with copper coat gasket sealer, so I'm not optimistic but still..
mitiempo.. thanks for the info.. I have thought about a "junction box",, multiple lines to one thru hull? whats the opinion here? too much demand from one hole? I don't figure I can run the faucet, flush the john, and tahe a shower, all at the same time so??
as for a diesel repower, I like the idea(longevity,reliability,etc...) but I am at heart a gas motor man.. too many years tinkering with old chevy's I guess.. lol
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Old 22-03-2013, 09:51   #416
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Originally Posted by madgunny View Post
as for a diesel repower, I like the idea(longevity,reliability,etc...) but I am at heart a gas motor man.. too many years tinkering with old chevy's I guess.. lol
Madgunny... one thing that concerns me is an event I've seen happen time and again. Someone starts out with a boat that floats/sails/runs, and they immediately pour time and money into improving it. Said boat eventually becomes worthless. Yes, it is entirely possible/ probable(?) to fix a boat up until it's worth nothing.

Structure is critical, but before I did/hired any work, why not use her for a while? What needs to be done can be -- she's less than 30' so even if you had to haul her out for something that was critical, we are talking not a whole lot of money.

Use her for at least three months -- six would be better, and then draw up your what needs to be done and over next winter, have at it. Good luck. But as to your initial query, NO, do not initally go into a refit. IMO.
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Old 22-03-2013, 09:58   #417
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Pick up a copy of "This Old Boat" by Casey. A wealth of information.
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Old 22-03-2013, 11:30   #418
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Use her for at least three months -- six would be better, and then draw up your what needs to be done and over next winter, have at it. Good luck. But as to your initial query, NO, do not initally go into a refit. IMO.
I think that is pretty good advice (not to say that someone hasn't done the opposite with complete success - and will shortly be posting here ).

IMO unless the water is actually coming in or you are heading straight off on your distant travels (plenty of other reasons not to on day 1 of your learning curve - even on a perfect boat!) then I would restrict your refit to lots of thinking, scribbling down notes (also called a plan!) and researching how much and how to (and when / what order and where) for everything you need / want to do.....and only do work / spend money on stuff that is really really needed (and not on things you would just like or only think you need - not know you need) - the exception being stuff that can easily be removed and taken on another boat or sent (back?) onto E-bay etc.....even then I would not go too mad at the outset.

Even after your thinking / planning and first hand experiance I would heartily recomended NOT going down the route of stuff like changing the interior layout or changing anything fundamental (like from tiller to wheel or vice verce) just because you think it would be a good idea - if you really want the Galley somewhere else or 3 inches on a berth etc etc then you are far better off buying a boat that has those as standard.....boats come apart a lot quicker than they go back together!..........Something enthusiastic first time owners all too often discover is that their "need to" list becomes longer as they learn more with out creating work for yourself by getting carried away with the "want to" list (nice to do some things though )

........and don't forget the magic of white paint and don't try and overfinish her to 2013 showroom standard as she wasn't like that when new! - IMO settle on sound and very clean and tidy for a 10 (or 20?!) year old boat, complete with "character" (aka cosmetic imperfections!).

If you do buy then would likely be of use to you to start own thread for her and your plans (refurb / learning curve / travels) - and of interest to others.
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Old 22-03-2013, 11:39   #419
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Oh, and just because the boat is "only" $3k doesn't mean you aren't buying $5, 10 or 20k of bills.....the "trick" is to have a good handle on what you are buying before buying as don't want to end up pumping $20k into a $3k boat to create a very very nice $5k boat! (no idea of actual values for the boat you mention - principal same for all boats!)......you are gonna lose money anyway (everyone does!), but makes sense to at least try and keep a lid on it - especially as at 27 the odds are strong that if you enjoy the boat experiance you sooner or later will be looking for something bigger, even if only a couple of feet.......everyone gets tempted into that one - no matter the size of boat, but at 27 the extra couple of feet will make a lot more difference so more likely that you will succumb to temptation.......forewarned is forearmed
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Old 22-03-2013, 12:31   #420
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

DOJ.. good no great advice. I fell into that customizing trap earl when land cruising too. bought an older class a that ran great and totally tricked out the interior, at about 15k over two years.. 100k miles later, it still looked/ran amazing but only got 5k at resale.lol I havent set my heart to any one boat yet, far to early in the learning curve for that, I just keeping using the 27' dory as an example because its the one that plugs into the most criteria at once( ie.. floats,runs,CHEAP) lol, and the fact that I just like the looks .truth is, I could buy a bigger/better boat upfront, not a superyacht, but an average turnkey( lol, right!) used cruiser, but it increases my risk/loss factor as well( might still need 10-20k upgrades) and I'd be afraid of bumping into things with it.. not so much on a floating training aid for 3k.. real plan is to get a cheap efficiency down east and do a lot of looking , asking friends, yada, yada, before buying, but I think I learn more upfront by going through the process every day, even if just online.. not to say I wouldn't buy a boat now, online, if the price/risk is small enough, and the boat seems like a fit!
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