Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-01-2013, 16:26   #391
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Oh, there is a name for that? I thought it was just a normal, natural process! I guess it would be different if I were ever able to afford a nice new boat but I always find myself messing with 40 year old basket cases or backyard-built monstrosities.

My approach is to always get some use out of a boat right from the beginning. I won't touch something that is gonna be nothing but a project for the first year. If I can't take it out for a day sail or live on it within a few days of purchase, I ain't gonna purchase. I want to start getting my money's worth out of it right away.

A low purchase price can make you feel really wierd about spending money on stuff. For instance, my boat cost me $2000. A new main and jib would cost more than that. Lucky me... about 9 sails came with the boat and none are new but all are usable in some fashion. I could sure use a new diesel engine at 4x the cost of the boat, but the old Atomic still runs okay in spite of being raw water cooled and chugging along since 1976. A watermaker would be nice to have but I'm gonna pay 2 to 3 times what I paid for the boat, just for a watermaker? Maybe not. Maybe more tanks and a few jerrycans. The electronics suite consisted of an aged VHF once white, now a deep butterscotch color, no LCD or touchpad stuff... just good old fashioned twisty knobs, and a Loran C LOL. Radar? Maybe a used one. Hand-me-down radar, black box AIS, laptop for a chart plotter will gitter done. Some money is going into habitability issues since I live aboard. I built a shower already and will soon move the head into the shower, use the old head space for an office, tear out the vanity for storage, completely redesign and rebuild the galley where what is left of the starboard settee is, build a small pilothouse, get rid of a bunch of stuff and optimize the interior for a single liveaboard. Cheap boat, cheap gear and cheap projects, within reason. I got this thing about the tail wagging the dog. Nevertheless, when all is said and done, even for verrrrry basic and low budget improvements, I will have 5 times the purchase price rolled up into improvements before it is really really ready, in my view, for long range cruising. That's the way of it. The bargain price for an old beater is nothing but an entry fee. The cover charge. It's like paying $5 to get in a titty bar on cheap drink night, but all those lap dances add up. So much for cheap entertainment.

The only thing that keeps me going on a boat like this is getting some use out of it all along through the process. I can be more philosophical about it when I figure I am not paying rent or a mortgage for a house or apartment, and so the weekly fixit costs don't sting so much. I can always drop what I am doing and take a boat bunny out on the lake for some slap n tickle, or anchor overnight somewhere and catch a few trout or reds in the early morning.

I stongly suggest keeping the following ideas in mind when considering the purchase of a fixer-upper:

1. Ideally, you get some use out of the boat during most of the refit process. Think twice about a project that will not see water for several months or a year. Being able to live aboard or take it out for a little excursion makes the pain of it all more bearable.

2. The initial cost might be only a very small fraction of the total cost. Don't be surprised if you end up spending three times what you originally intended.

3. Try to improvise and go with less than top-of-the-line gear and materials, when possible, for an old wreck of a boat. New Radar, or used from ebay, or do without? Do you really HAVE to spend time and money on faultless joinery throughout? Is it such a terrible thing to look at a little fiberglass down below? Okay, if the boat is really worth going first class, then do so, but some old knockabouts are best left a little rough and ready, from a dollar standpoint.

4. No matter what, you are gonna lose money when you sell the boat, so figure on it being your boat for a long time.

These certainly aren't hard and fast, written in stone rules, but I think they will serve most of us. But otherwise,

5. Sometimes you just gotta follow your heart, after all. Logic and common sense don't always bring happiness.
__________________

__________________
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2013, 17:12   #392
Registered User
 
Captain Grandpa's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Riverside Ca
Boat: Islander Bahama 24'
Posts: 101
Excellent advice. I wish I could blame my departure from good sense on ignorance. Truth is I wasn't considering project boats. I walked away from several fine vessels because they were "some assembly required". Not really sure how this one wound up parked in front of my house. It's all a bit fuzzy. So here I am. I spent my savings on the boat and I'm committed. The money I planned on saving each month is now my production budget. I have to learn new skills as I go. Nothing wrong with self improvement I guess. The time its taking is discouraging. I keep thinking of the macgreggor 25 i was looking at she was ready to sail (i think) Once she's in the water though, she's going to be freaking sweet! Just a miniature version of those beauty's you all travel in all over the world. A sight to behold with her brass and wood. In the meantime when I just can't stand it anymore, I can always go rent again. Or borrow dads little boat if I want to try dodging the container ships in long beach harbor.
__________________

__________________
It's not a hobby it's an obsession
Captain Grandpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2013, 21:18   #393
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Dave_Old_Jersey,

I found the perfect project boat for me. The seller only wants $6,000. I think he should pay me a $1000 to get it off his property. He must of had boat feaver when he bought it

1966 Custom One Off sailboat for sale in Florida
__________________
SnoopyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2013, 22:06   #394
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

From the proverbial box job to a Histrionically Valuable Yacht. My wife and I have lived that Life and Dream for the last 12 years.




HOWB 043 – Interview: Lloyd Shugart, owner 52′ Ed Monk Bridgedeck Wooden Cruiser

Flying Cloud - Classic Yacht Association

In The Yard 09
__________________
FlyingCloud1937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 02:43   #395
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopyMan View Post
Dave_Old_Jersey,

I found the perfect project boat for me. The seller only wants $6,000. I think he should pay me a $1000 to get it off his property. He must of had boat feaver when he bought it

1966 Custom One Off sailboat for sale in Florida
I dunno, I reckon a couple of weekends work .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 02:58   #396
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
From the proverbial box job to a Histrionically Valuable Yacht. My wife and I have lived that Life and Dream for the last 12 years.

HOWB 043 – Interview: Lloyd Shugart, owner 52′ Ed Monk Bridgedeck Wooden Cruiser

Flying Cloud - Classic Yacht Association

In The Yard 09
That gives me a new idea for another (complimentary?) thread.........

FINISHED Projects (major refurb / refit) - Pics and Links please!

.........perhaps offering some hope that at least some folks finish!
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 06:23   #397
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
That gives me a new idea for another (complimentary?) thread.........

FINISHED Projects (major refurb / refit) - Pics and Links please!

.........perhaps offering some hope that at least some folks finish!
FINISHED projects? Won't be a very busy thread!
__________________
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 06:29   #398
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: 1976 Cal 2-27
Posts: 1,298
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopyMan View Post
Dave_Old_Jersey,

I found the perfect project boat for me. The seller only wants $6,000. I think he should pay me a $1000 to get it off his property. He must of had boat feaver when he bought it

1966 Custom One Off sailboat for sale in Florida
ROTFFLMFAO!!!! ONLY $6k?
__________________
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 06:31   #399
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
FINISHED projects? Won't be a very busy thread!
Am figuring it will be a slow burning thread , but give it a year or 2 and who knows............
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2013, 12:22   #400
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I haven't read all the responses to your thread David but would like to add one item that might already have been mentioned:
Don't buy anything for your boat that you are not ready to install and use immediately. Just because you might think you'll install it someday and it is really cheap is not a good reason to buy it.
No matter how cheap it is now you'll pay much more in time, energy and materials to try to make it fit later. And, if it is electronics it'll be obsolete.
kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 01:35   #401
Registered User
 
Ryan H's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 264
Images: 3
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Now here's a topic near and dear to me. I got my Grampian 26 for free on craigslist, worked on it myself for just over a year built it into a great little liveaboard by launch time.

I have to say the biggest help to me for getting the boat done on a budget was craiglist. I got the boat for free, a 5HP outboard in great shape for 200$, a West Marine VHF for 20$, a NOS jabsco manual head for 40$, I got a new main sail for 120$, storm jib for 40$, Full size jib for 85$, a 150% for 110$, and a 45LB CQR for 80$ all from craigslist.

I picked up a boom in florida when I drove down to visit relatives anyway for 50$, I got a barometer, hydrometer and thermometer from a yard sale for 10$, got my hands on a uniden shoot through depth sounder for clearance at west marine for 40$. I got 350ft of 1/2 nylon rope, new hull zincs, most of my running rigging and a rebuild kit for my Jabsco head from a closing local marine store for 46$ total. I put 1' closed cell foam insulation around the hull, used recycled hardwood for the stringers, and finished with cedar slats for an inexpensive, great smelling, nice finished look.
I also put in a back splash behind the sink and oven out of a fiberglass sheet and bronze and champagne metallic tiles on clearance from lowes.

I primed and painted the boat myself using rustoleum marine enamel mixed with thinner mineral spirits and enamel hardener, white and oyster cabin and deck, navy blue hull and silver conning and boot stripe. I got my bottom paint and two gallons of interprotect from online for less than half what west marine wanted plus I used an online coupon and even got free shipping.

Also after spending 6 months thinking about ways to rig my standing rigging without any access to old rigs and no known shroud or stay measurements I wound up going the slightly inelegant method of over estimating the sizes, ordered the wire rope from seco, and doubled up nicopress fittings to the mast, after launch I gave a local fisherman 60$ to use a dockside crane to raise the mast and put double nicopress fittings on the ends of all the shrouds and stays while the crane held the mast up.

Main points I would say would be to never stop looking for whatever you need, look everywhere and when you do find a particular product do all the research you can on it. Craigslist, recycled lumber stores, marine salvage yards, clearance section in marine stores, closing marine stores, etc.

Secondly, the more research you do the more money you can save. 12 volt marine light fixtures are generic looking and while not exactly expensive, aren't cheap either. Most of my interior lights are 12 volt copper brushed exterior accent fixtures from lowes, cost between 5$ and 15$. They look great, use the exact same internal fixture and are the same build quality. I also couldn't afford a new marine stove. Camp chief makes a backpack oven that's all stainless and brass for 1/10 the price that at least three sailboats have had installed with good results.

Finally, the more out of the box you think the more you can accomplish on your own. Marine refrigeration was way above my budget, so I took a saber saw to a mini fridge that was in sitting in storage, scooped out the whole system in one piece, cut a hole in the side of my icebox to install the cold plate, built a gimbal for the compressor, reglassed the inner and outter lining of the box and added 5" of insulation. On its lowest setting the box gets down to 7 degrees and can be run off my inverter, shore power cord (craigslist 20$), or a 900 watt HF generator I also got off craigslist for 40$

In total I'm living on my boat for around 2500$ including getting the boat trailered to my work space and again from my work space to the launch ramp. I really wouldn't mind spending more, buying new and getting more marine specific goods if I could, but I can't really let that stop me from doing all the traveling and sailing I've always wanted to do.
__________________
Ryan H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 03:46   #402
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Cheers for the contribution .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan H View Post
Main points I would say would be to never stop looking for whatever you need, look everywhere and when you do find a particular product do all the research you can on it. Craigslist, recycled lumber stores, marine salvage yards, clearance section in marine stores, closing marine stores, etc.
+1 on the never stop looking, the key of course is to know early on what you will later be needing so you know what to keep an eye out for. and, as you say, lots of research.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 03:50   #403
Registered User
 
Allan S's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lake Ontario, Canada
Boat: Seafarer 38 cutter rigged
Posts: 263
Images: 5
Send a message via MSN to Allan S
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Ryan H., great post. It gives inspiration to those of us who have slightly less than perfect posts.
__________________
Our Coronado 25, Not named yet!
http://coronado25.blogspot.com/
http://sheppard1961.blogspot.ca/
Allan S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 04:21   #404
Registered User
 
Ryan H's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 264
Images: 3
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan S View Post
Ryan H., great post. It gives inspiration to those of us who have slightly less than perfect posts.

I guess I'm just an imperfect boat kinda guy . I was a little afraid to mention in my first post that I also welded up my own wood stove, put in a solid bamboo floor, and learned to plastic welded by turning a 150 gallon HDPE camper tank into a bow sized 90 gal water tank and a 30 gal holding tank that I plumbed with Don Caseys 'newtonian discharge' option. None of it cost anything other than time, sore muscles, and a bit of aggravation. I'm sure its not exactly the mainstream method of getting a boat back in the water where it belongs, but my wife and I are happily living aboard.
__________________
Ryan H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 09:54   #405
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan H View Post
I guess I'm just an imperfect boat kinda guy . I was a little afraid to mention in my first post that I also welded up my own wood stove, put in a solid bamboo floor, and learned to plastic welded by turning a 150 gallon HDPE camper tank into a bow sized 90 gal water tank and a 30 gal holding tank that I plumbed with Don Caseys 'newtonian discharge' option. None of it cost anything other than time, sore muscles, and a bit of aggravation. I'm sure its not exactly the mainstream method of getting a boat back in the water where it belongs, but my wife and I are happily living aboard.
And here I thought I was thrifty. Way to go Ryan.
As long as it does what you want and gets you where you want to go safely, that's all that matters.

There will always be someone looking down their nose, no matter what you have. So, enjoy your craftsmanship. This is just the first step to bigger and better.

Oh BTW, You may want to change anchors!
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cheap, DOJ, refit, Refurb

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale ! Hogan Engines and Propulsion Systems 432 13-12-2011 17:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.