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Old 03-11-2012, 16:23   #346
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

In France they say: "de Raison".
And a fact it is.

I can help myself.

God may help the people who can't ......
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:25   #347
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Now that I have read through the whole thread, I think I might have something to add (which is amazing, because I am such a newb!)

I'm the spouse

My husband fell in love with wooden sailboats in his twenties, but had no experience. Hard not to fall in love in the Herreshoff museum...

He found/lucked into a job learning carpentry for a builder who spent one day a week paying the crew to help restore his 1930 48' Crocker racing sloop. He met and learned from excellent carpenters and boat builders. Never saw her finished, I don't think she ever was.

In a couple of years, we bought an old farm; all the caveats that apply to buying old boats are relevant there. Then we found an old Atkins-design double ender, 24', in the water. Went out, fell in love, the owner liked us. I realize now we paid too much (5k), but he let us take delivery of it and send him little checks for years until it was paid off.

Mistake-instead of sailing her, we put her in the barn and ripped the house, decks, and cockpit off. Yes, she needed structural work, but we should have sailed her for a season first.

Then we had a baby; I was no longer able to participate in the project, but it was really John's project, and I shared his dream and was happy to see him happy.

We eventually got that boat in the water, and we considered that 5k a fairly cheap education. In addition to learning a lot about boats, we both learned that John will spend all day in a 20 degree barn, under flickering fluorescents, if he needs to. We learned that I get tired of being a single parent, but I will do it for the dream. We learned that John had the skill required to do, or learn to do, what needs to be done, and the right instincts. We learned that we could sail, too (I did have some small boat experience in that department). We learned that having a free place to keep it is essential, if it's a project boat. We learned a lot about humility; ego can be the biggest barrier to growth.

We hauled her after her first season and watched her open up on the hard while paying for yard space. Finally sold her for a dollar rather than scrap her-she was full of bronze, newer sails, Volvo Penta; there was scrap there but she had a soul and we couldn't tear her down. Also, we had put the farm on the market because we realized that *that* was the *wrong* dream; so our hearts were moving on. She ended up as a pirate play house and we saw the engine on Craigslist. No regrets. None.

The farm had a magnificent three season porch, and we would sit there and drink coffee and dream over the map, and the someday boat. When we sold, we moved right to the middle of that coffee stained page, John having become a timber framer after the stint with the builder. We decided to rent, which is wonderful and I don't know if we'll ever buy again. Boat & House = too much for Thompsons. Bought a Blue Jay in near-perfect sailing condition from a guy up the road and put her in a mile away; we had our second baby immediately before we moved and I've STILL never been on that dinghy! Meanwhile, John and the older child get to sail.

Lessons-really small children are full-time work, so one parent is effectively out of the picture, but getting a little boat keeps someone sailing and that's critical to regular reassessment and refreshment of the dream. Also, when you want something, head straight for it. If it's the wrong dream, you'll know. If it's the right dream, you are already part way there. Check in with yourself-are you happy? Is it the right dream? Or are you justifying it because you are feeling committed and not wanting to look foolish? That's the ego talking. If it's the wrong dream, walk away. It's just standing between you and the right dream.

So, then I get really, scarily, sick. Like, am I going to die? You can read all about it at Nourishing Path if you are interested. While I think all this boat chat over the years has been idle dreaming, I realize John has been carefully, systematically, watching the market. I find this out when, on one of my breaks between hospitalization, I see an email "REPLY: Crocker 37, still interested?" and I find out that one of those "Look at THAT! Perfect, huh?" boats is on the market for a fraction of the original ask, and John has been up to inspect her; she's only an hour away, on the hard. I am adamant that it is NOT the time for something like that, but then I begin to think exactly the opposite. We have a little change left from selling the house, so, even though it is a fraction again of the ask, we decide to offer that if and when I come through the other side. Lots more inspecting, soul-searching, etc in the meantime, but I do, she's still there, and they (pretty much) accept our offer, against another, higher, one. It's meant to be. John is commuting an hour to work on the boat, I'm home with two kids, but he's doing it right. During a materials search he meets a local boatbuilder, with whom he takes part-time work, in addition to his timber framing job. We take a slight income cut, but I can see that he needs to go where his heart is; we'll make it work.

When the prepaid yard fees run out, said boatbuilder lets us build a shed in his yard and keep it there for free, five minutes away! Now work can proceed apace. We can barely afford even the hauling, but we're determined. Somehow, we keep it secret from family, because it seems so massive and foolish. And yet, she's launched, a year and a half after purchase! There's still a lot to do, but we've cruised coastally and plan much more, and we want to live aboard at a marina for a while to see if that is the right dream. We've had fits and starts (see my thread and blog post about our planned and aborted fall cruise, but we are moving forward, with ever-increasing clarity.

Lessons-This is a team operation; both partners need to have the emotional and physical resources to push through. I said to John at one point, "I'm going to bitch about it sometimes, but I want you to do this." For four or five months this spring, he worked seven days a week. Give yourself the opportunity to find out, in the clutch, what you do. How hard are you willing to work, how lonely and discouraged are you willing to get, how honest can you be with yourself. For us, anther rule was NO DEBT, and keep something in the bank. We slowed WAY down when we started to break that one. Know your price.

And that's my essay on the subject I've got so much more to learn than I will ever know, but I think I've got a lot of lessons under my belt already. I hope there is something useful in that for someone.

Sarah
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:35   #348
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Thank you, Mrs T!
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:44   #349
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Originally Posted by thompsonisland View Post
I hope there is something useful in that for someone.

Sarah
Cheers for the addition to the pot .

That life intervening thing is IMO the biggie (and one of the recurring themes) that can never be fully planned .

What folks make of it all is up to them - but at least those who have read this thread can't say they weren't warned .
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:50   #350
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Hey there,

Wanted to add our story.

Met my Wife 9yrs ago (FiancÚ back then) - she supported my sailing habit and stood by as I purchased a 1970's Islander 33. The boat was a disaster, never sailed her much - always fixing things. The boat was over 40min from our home in LA and not very accessible. Honestly, we prob visited the boat once every 6weeks (not good IMHO). After about two years we sold the Islander and chartered/rented whenever we wanted to go out or to Catalina for the weekend. This was one of the best moves we could have made, with the free'd up income we joined a sailing club and yacht club and sailed 2x more often than when we owned our Islander.

Fast forward 5yrs and 2 Offshore Sailing School Certificates later, and my Wife attending the Mahina liveaboard seminar in Oakland >> we purchased a 30yr old Amel Maramu 46' (fell in love at first sail) - and have spent the last 6mo sailing and rebuilding her. We prob sail 3x a month minimum and truly LOVE this vessel. Without learning what we 'did not want' we would never of found Henri Amel (and sailed a 53ft Super Maramu for a daysail in St Lucia) or understood what a true offshore vessel is like (she's no Beneteau).

Bottom line - boat ownership is a journey of both personal preference and discovery. My recommendation is fall in love with sailing, try many manufacturers for chartering and see what you love. We personally could never afford a new Amel, but we fell in love with a designer and manufacturer that helped steer us to the BIG purchase and fulfillment of a dream. In addition we chose to dock this time less than 15min from home, so we often go to the boat weekly to have dinner or wine at sunset (make the vessel convenient to use).

Thanks for listening - I hope others have a great time buying a sailboat >> this should be fun!
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Old 06-11-2012, 13:38   #351
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Thank you for the advice Capt. Wayne. Any ideas as to where I might purchase this rub rail?
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Old 06-11-2012, 13:48   #352
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Thank you for the advice Capt. Wayne. Any ideas as to where I might purchase this rub rail?
You should be able to find it in Vanc. If not, you can get it down here in Seattle >>>>> Fisheries Supply - Marine Supplies Since 1928
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Old 06-11-2012, 14:00   #353
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

It's been so long I do not remember where Carver got this but I would try Taco metals in Fla or you can try Carver they may be able to tell you. we were just setting up computer BOMs back then so I think they may be able to look it up.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:52   #354
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Great, great thread.

My wife and I purchased a 38 footer at a great price a couple of months ago. The previous owner had some health issues. His records are meticulous. Yes, there is work to be done, like the insurance company wants all the thru-hulls replaced. It is on the hard and we will splash her next June (knock on wood).

I just winterized my first inboard and hope to hell I did it right! If not, a new power plant would cost more than what we got the boat for!

As for electronics, I don't get it. I have 25 year old radios on both boats that works fine. I would love a good reason to change them, I mean a real reason, not because it would be fashionable to do so.

Our budget is about $900 a month for work. The bigger ticket items take a while as we build a purchase kitty. No debt allowed! That is paramount!

We are learning, for example, we read and googled anything and everything on thru-hulls. I spent a long time on the raw water for the engine. I went from a gate valve to a proper sea-cock. There was a bigger 'foot print' than the original but I learned a lot. I read earlier in this thread about the value of a cordless angle drill and I can vouch that bit of wisdom

Well, I have to get to work.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:27   #355
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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Great, great thread.

My wife and I purchased a 38 footer at a great price a couple of months ago. The previous owner had some health issues. His records are meticulous. Yes, there is work to be done, like the insurance company wants all the thru-hulls replaced. It is on the hard and we will splash her next June (knock on wood).

I just winterized my first inboard and hope to hell I did it right! If not, a new power plant would cost more than what we got the boat for!

As for electronics, I don't get it. I have 25 year old radios on both boats that works fine. I would love a good reason to change them, I mean a real reason, not because it would be fashionable to do so.

Our budget is about $900 a month for work. The bigger ticket items take a while as we build a purchase kitty. No debt allowed! That is paramount!

We are learning, for example, we read and googled anything and everything on thru-hulls. I spent a long time on the raw water for the engine. I went from a gate valve to a proper sea-cock. There was a bigger 'foot print' than the original but I learned a lot. I read earlier in this thread about the value of a cordless angle drill and I can vouch that bit of wisdom

Well, I have to get to work.
FWIW I,jst completed 6 months on the hard.I,replaced all thru hull fittings and upgraded all ball valves to proper seacocks with backing plates using the Compass Marine method.After hour's of research and price comparing Groco got the vote there Flange Seacock's have the easiest action anf there flange adaptors in a couple of tight spots made life easier.Good Luck.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:32   #356
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

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As for electronics, I don't get it. I have 25 year old radios on both boats that works fine. I would love a good reason to change them, I mean a real reason, not because it would be fashionable to do so.
A full suit of the latest whizzbang gizmos is nice - but far from essential, also gotta remember that whatever one has onboard was originally sold as the latest all singing and dancing "must have" and whilst progress has undoubtably been made few changes are of a fundamental nature (i.e the move from Pencil to RDF to GPS).


Quote:
Well, I have to get to work.
Yeah, get back to work .
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Old 14-12-2012, 20:24   #357
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

WOW! What a thread! I guess it died down last may since the weather was good and all were either working on thier boats or sailing them. Now that's it's winter, I'd like to see more as I think I'm getting bit by the same bug.

Lot's of good stuff to ponder, budget, commitment, shop til ya drop and make a plan....more too.

I have been here awhile and have been on lakes and rivers for 50+ years and owned 1 sailboat as a kid, since they have all been power or take a paddle. So, I'd just say I'm new to sailing and sailboats.

My thing is doing the Great Loop, not sailing to Europe or Oz land. I have post much of this before so I won't bore anyone any longer. While I have been looking for some time, 24' to 56' and back and forth between sail and power, I have realized that it needs to be a sailboat and in the 30 to 36 foot range.

I'm landlocked in the midwest, I have noticed the ports of those who have posted, you're lucky to love boats and live near the coast. My choices are limited unless I spend money for boat hunting expeditions.

So, in line with this great thread, I give you this rehab canidate:

1985 Luger Voyager 30 sailboat for sale in Missouri

I have not seen the boat yet but did talk to the broker briefly and it's still there.

The owner started the interior and gave up, probably after buying those new ports.

I'm betting the deck and hull are good, that it is all solid as the broker mentioned. Looks like it's interior work which I can do. 15 to 30 hours a week for 3 months I should have it done or close. Seems it could be sailed pretty quick.

I'd take it to the lakes first, my trip is months off, probably 16 months or so. So, it's not like I don't have time.

Don't want to clog the thread about me but, question is;

Is this a boat you would take on? Keepin mind, it's not for blue waters but the ICW, gulf, rivers and lakes.

Thanks,
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Old 14-12-2012, 22:42   #358
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

luger 30 -

it's not much of a boat, but then you're not making much of a trip. get a couple of big anchors and chain and it should be fine for doing the great loop. just before you go get yourself a seatow (or boatus) tow package to cover any unfortunate events. anything else you forgot can be picked up along the way.

by the way, no mention of an engine. some of these lugers used outboards; i don't see any provision for one.
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Old 14-12-2012, 22:54   #359
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermanns View Post
Hey there,

Wanted to add our story.

Met my Wife 9yrs ago (FiancÚ back then) - she supported my sailing habit and stood by as I purchased a 1970's Islander 33. The boat was a disaster, never sailed her much - always fixing things. The boat was over 40min from our home in LA and not very accessible. Honestly, we prob visited the boat once every 6weeks (not good IMHO). After about two years we sold the Islander and chartered/rented whenever we wanted to go out or to Catalina for the weekend. This was one of the best moves we could have made, with the free'd up income we joined a sailing club and yacht club and sailed 2x more often than when we owned our Islander.

Fast forward 5yrs and 2 Offshore Sailing School Certificates later, and my Wife attending the Mahina liveaboard seminar in Oakland >> we purchased a 30yr old Amel Maramu 46' (fell in love at first sail) - and have spent the last 6mo sailing and rebuilding her. We prob sail 3x a month minimum and truly LOVE this vessel. Without learning what we 'did not want' we would never of found Henri Amel (and sailed a 53ft Super Maramu for a daysail in St Lucia) or understood what a true offshore vessel is like (she's no Beneteau).

Bottom line - boat ownership is a journey of both personal preference and discovery. My recommendation is fall in love with sailing, try many manufacturers for chartering and see what you love. We personally could never afford a new Amel, but we fell in love with a designer and manufacturer that helped steer us to the BIG purchase and fulfillment of a dream. In addition we chose to dock this time less than 15min from home, so we often go to the boat weekly to have dinner or wine at sunset (make the vessel convenient to use).

Thanks for listening - I hope others have a great time buying a sailboat >> this should be fun!
Nice story. Great vessel.
Many would be shocked you went for the much larger vessel.
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Old 15-12-2012, 05:17   #360
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Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Onestep, I understand, it's no circumnavigation machine but seems fit for the purpose at hand. A good thing about a 30 footer is that I'll need less chain than a much larger heavier boat! I promise, I won't be using a bucket with concrete....

Downunder, are you implying I should go bigger? I admit the beam will be restrictive, like a motorhome without slides. We do have "yacht" clubs here, if you consider deckboats a yacht, there are no charters for sailboats in my area. Closest is probably Chicago about 6 hours away.

This boat includes a 15hp Johnson, year is not known yet. There is a motor well to lift or drop the OB as needed, better than a side mounted arrangement I'd think. The stern appears to say motor me!

As to the value of the boat, this is not a money maker, I'd probably have projects on any boat I buy as I'm not buying a new one. It wouldn't be long before I began personalizing my boat in some way regardless of what it ends up being. Nothing wild, just touches that offered more smiles.

While the Loop is not much for cruisers, it's just over 1,500 miles if you stay to the course, if you head off on the Arkansas, Missouri and the White, the lengths of the riverways exceed a circumnavigation but certainly not on the same waters. Outfitting should be much cheaper.
And if I sell around here after that, to midwesterner newbies, those miles may be a selling point for those thinking of doing lakes and rivers as well.

I kept my cuddy cabin cruiser for twenty some years, my new to me boat may never be sold.

So, is it a canidate for a rehab, money poured in at the state it's in to the function expected? Is it worth fooling with?
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