Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-04-2012, 05:23   #181
Registered User
 
Icarus's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Boat: S&S 40
Posts: 33
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by engele View Post
I couldn't have put this better. I too have a boat that is worth far less than what I have into it. Do I reget it? Nope. Would I do it again? Nope. Am I glad I did? Yep. Even fasteners cost a fortune on a boat. It is easy to massively underestimate the cost of a refit, just by leaving out details, and that leaves no allowances for surprises. I think one of the reasons there are so many project boats that pass from one owner to the next without ever seeing the water is that about halfway through people realize that they will never see the money back they have put into the boat and lose drive. I may buy a used boat again. If I do I will know what is involved, but as a way for someone to get a boat on the cheap? Refitting is more expensive than buying. By a good bit in most cases. Just the parts and material scrounged up from scrapyards and ebay (leaving marine stores out of the equation entirely), will cost thousands more than anyone would guess. The only way to save money is to go smaller.
To true...I have built about 12 complete yachts..yes from scratch.ranging from 34' to 47'... a complete 40' yacht can be built by one person in 18 month sail away...ah..providing one has the cash..
If you refab a yacht make sure the hull/deck, engine and mast/sails are good, when I start on the interior start on one end and finish each section completely before moving to the next..like finish the forepeak then the head,then the saloon..ect...the idea is don't double back (sometimes one has to)...and yes, every day 8 hr..maybe 10..knowing what to do is essential..also listen to shipwrights most of them know how to put things together correctly and quickly..make a work list and keep to it..
Buy the best quality equipment (thing which matter)you can afford...waiting for The 'bargain' can take forever..electronics...GPS 2x, sounder, VHF maybe a shortwave receifer...chart plotters have very limited use..buy charts instead it keeps you in touch with reality, 3 good heavy anchors and 80+meters of chain, 12V fridges can be good, solar panels..and finally how to charge the batteries? I found a Honda inverter type generator the best..light on fuel, light to carry, silent, and it works when the sun don't shine and you can use it to drill, cut and sand things when one needs to fix something.
On the sad side..if a refit is going to cost 30k and one only has 10k in the bank and one has to go and earn money and save up for the rest the work on the boat will stop and time passes..meanwhile the fence needs repairing and the wife needs a new kitchen..
__________________

__________________
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 07:15   #182
Registered User
 
janice142's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast of Florida
Boat: Schucker mini-trawler
Posts: 331
Send a message via AIM to janice142 Send a message via MSN to janice142 Send a message via Yahoo to janice142 Send a message via Skype™ to janice142
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

The time and money spent in making a boat a home won't necessarily be recuperated financially however there are ways to save money, and the happiness quotient surely counts too.

In the not spend $$ (versus saved) I found a small fishing pole floating by a year or so back. After recovering same I installed three cup hooks and mounted it along the cabin overhead. Then, about two months ago we decided to fully install the wifi booster... so how to run the wires thru the overhead without a feeder wire thing? Well, I cut off a couple of the line loops (eyes) from the fishing pole and voila: it worked and the price was perfect. After the wifi cord was run (down below and into the galley) (gosh, it looks so much better out of sight) again the fishing pole was pulled out to run the 3.5 speaker wire extension ...

I know that I probably "should" have gotten rid of that old pole however I'm glad I didn't and yes, it's back in it's hanger... I'd used a back-scratcher and a piece of spare teak to pull thru feeder line when running the wires for the windlass... the fishing pole is far easier and bends around corners.

Of course if I had one of those pointy stick bridge openers, I'd have to have a real wire unit longer than the length of the mast...........

As far as shine, well, although I'd like my girl to shine the reality is that I don't want it enough to do it myself. She's Jack Benny's age which really isn't so very old.
__________________

__________________
janice142 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 10:13   #183
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Great couple of posts that hopefully will keep things in perspective for people who are dreaming and thinking they can buy a fixer and make it work for long term cruising. It's just amazing how much time and money it takes. Even today, after building a couple boats from a hull and deck, and after refitting a few etc..... I find it very easy to overlook the cost and problems with old boats... arghhh
Even worse.... I did mine years ago and though things were expenssive.... yikes ... I look at prices now and cant believe it!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 11:57   #184
Registered User
 
Beersmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Boat: 1975 Downeaster 38' Cutter
Posts: 341
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

I took on an old beater to completely rebuild. I am 2+ years into the process and still enjoying every second of it.

I think it is more important for someone like me, who had zero handy skills or knowledge about boats to do this. I will have all the skills to maintain and repair every system on the boat once done. Sure it costs a ton, but that isn't why I did it. I did it to learn the skills, a graduate school of necessary skills to maintain and repair my own boat. I didn't want to face major repairs while crossing an ocean without knowing how to do it.

It takes patience, time, a steady income, a willingness to learn, a sacrifice of social life, and many other qualities to do a rebuild.

See my sig for the whole story of my boat.
__________________
One More Wave: my sailing and boat rebuild blog (formerly: The Quest for Wind and Waves)
Beersmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 03:47   #185
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Even today, after building a couple boats from a hull and deck, and after refitting a few etc..... I find it very easy to overlook the cost and problems with old boats... arghhh
Lol! Although not yet finished, things are moving along quite nicely / fairly quickly.......at least to the stage of me thinking "what next?" ......my "to do" list still has a nesting dink and a Canoe (with outriggers) to be built.

- but after that...........have already started thinking would be nice to see whether I could employ the (hard won!) lessons on something else - out of curiosity if nothing else. The slight fly in the ointment is that I don't want to sell what I have. Still, I have time yet to ponder "what next?".........

.....I suspect Boat refurbishment is the male equivalent of Childbirth - you soon forget why you swore blind: "Never Again " .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 04:02   #186
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beersmith View Post
See my sig for the whole story of my boat.
The Quest for Wind and Waves

That's a nicely done website / blog - will finish reading later.

(is that naked Mermaid on the bow yours or on another boat?)
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 10:29   #187
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

.....I suspect Boat refurbishment is the male equivalent of Childbirth - you soon forget why you swore blind: "Never Again " .

Ha! You're right..... I seem to see things as they COULD be rather than how they really are!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 10:48   #188
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beersmith View Post
I took on an old beater to completely rebuild. I am 2+ years into the process and still enjoying every second of it.

I think it is more important for someone like me, who had zero handy skills or knowledge about boats to do this. I will have all the skills to maintain and repair every system on the boat once done. Sure it costs a ton, but that isn't why I did it. I did it to learn the skills, a graduate school of necessary skills to maintain and repair my own boat. I didn't want to face major repairs while crossing an ocean without knowing how to do it.

It takes patience, time, a steady income, a willingness to learn, a sacrifice of social life, and many other qualities to do a rebuild.

See my sig for the whole story of my boat.
We're right there with ya. The other reason that sounds kind of stupid but it is true... We fell in love with our boat. When we found it we just knew it was the boat we wanted.

We actually tried to buy it when we first found her. But the broker never returned our offer and the boat disappeared from the market only to reappear a year later. Turned out the broker had passed away after our offer. So we made a second offer. Went through a lot to buy Sundowner. We've been refurbishing tons at massive expense. But we love it.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 11:37   #189
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

But the broker never returned our offer and the boat disappeared from the market only to reappear a year later. Turned out the broker had passed away after our offer.

That must have been a hell of an offer!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 13:05   #190
Registered User
 
Beersmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Boat: 1975 Downeaster 38' Cutter
Posts: 341
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The Quest for Wind and Waves

That's a nicely done website / blog - will finish reading later.

(is that naked Mermaid on the bow yours or on another boat?)
thats another boat in the yard. It hasn't been touched by anyone in the 2 years I've been on the hard. I am very tempted to lay claim to the figurehead
__________________
One More Wave: my sailing and boat rebuild blog (formerly: The Quest for Wind and Waves)
Beersmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 13:08   #191
Registered User
 
Beersmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Boat: 1975 Downeaster 38' Cutter
Posts: 341
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
We're right there with ya. The other reason that sounds kind of stupid but it is true... We fell in love with our boat. When we found it we just knew it was the boat we wanted.

We actually tried to buy it when we first found her. But the broker never returned our offer and the boat disappeared from the market only to reappear a year later. Turned out the broker had passed away after our offer. So we made a second offer. Went through a lot to buy Sundowner. We've been refurbishing tons at massive expense. But we love it.
Glad you guys were able to get her At least you guys are able to enjoy sailing Sundowner while you work on it!

I had a little time with Windsong in the water, but it was more nervewracking than anything considering its condition at the time. I was scared to death that it was all gonna fall apart with each sail.
__________________
One More Wave: my sailing and boat rebuild blog (formerly: The Quest for Wind and Waves)
Beersmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 13:23   #192
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Well, I pity the poor gentleman with his beautiful 40 clipper. Unfortunately S-California are several bridges and years too far away. Sometimes life is quite unfair, of which I had my share.
I am close to the very end of refurbishing NEALA (miss scrapheap as I call her here). Today I bought the autopilot (Autohelm 4000ST), a Weatherfax 210 from Furuno and an ICOM RC72 communication receiver. I have already 2 x VHF plus one handheld (in some EU countries 2 VHF are obligatory), so not all refurbishings should have a negative end.
But I can definitely feel that affairs are going downhill considerably quick in the EU.
Everyone is cash strapped.
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 17:34   #193
Registered User
 
Target9000's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans LA
Boat: 74 Westsail 32
Posts: 1,379
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
But the broker never returned our offer and the boat disappeared from the market only to reappear a year later. Turned out the broker had passed away after our offer.

That must have been a hell of an offer!
Lets hope we don't have to buy any more boats.
__________________
Let your heart tell you where to go, but let your brain tell you how to get there.

Sundowner Sails Again
Target9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2012, 09:19   #194
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Good old boats. You'd think that me of all people would know better but NOOOOO, now I own five of the beasties... The latest is a Doug Petesrson design that won the half tonner worlds in 1975 before Bayliner bought the molds. A Bayliner 295. Actually, a nice, fast, well equipped little boat. This one with wheel steering and fairly fresh sails. Looking forward to sailing and then selling her. So are the boys...
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2012, 21:55   #195
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 210
Re: Refurbing / Refitting an Older boat - Advice and Ideas

Reading this thread, it reminds me of many other threads listing out huge amounts for maintenance and upgrades...I am still struggling to figure out how people spend that much money. I mean, maybe if you basically had to rebuild the boat from scratch, but why buy a boat that you had to rebuild from scratch? (not counting those who see a sentimental value to restoring a boat).

I mean, a boat with a decently working newer engine, a few sails, and a solid hull is not that hard to find (a little damage to the core is not that big of a deal to even my anal as hell father...he still has a soft spot after owning the boat for years). Aside from that everything is basically luxuries, right?

So taking a boat with a decent hull, decent sails, and decent engine...what all left is there to do? I'm really scratching my head and have been for some time now. Not tlaking about upgrades (you could spend millions on those) but strictly bringing the boat back to basic working order (it can sail and won't sink easily).

We just looked at an old spencer 44'. Clean enough inside for my wife (some wood was cracked, a couple drawers had problems opening, no big deal). What I would consider very over-built rigging that looked in good enough shape. Good main and fairly new engine. Had a bunch of other extras I liked (huge water tankage, refrigeration, lectrasan, strong dinghy davits) and some I didn't care as much about (chartplotter, wind meter). It needed at least one new headsail and a bottom paint but then it would be good to go in my estimation. We'd do other things like add a shitload of solar and new battery banks for the electric stuff my wife wants and probably slap on some LED lighting inside...but those are upgrades and I wouldn't consider them part of "refurbing" a boat.

I am on a limited budget and deathly afraid of buying a boat near our limits and then having a surprise $20k bill for necessary repairs but for the life of me can't think of what would cost $20k. The only expensive things I can think of that I would have to replace are sails and engines and I wouldn't buy a boat that needed those. About all I was able to get in another thread was to maybe add another $3k for re-doing the rigging.
__________________

__________________
jm21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cheap, DOJ, refit, Refurb

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OMG ! Clawing Off a Lee Shore in a Gale ! Hogan Engines and Propulsion Systems 432 13-12-2011 17:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.