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Old 29-04-2006, 05:44   #1
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Refrigeration Sealants

Can anyone offer an experienced opinion on “SUPER SEAL ACR” or “Super Seal HVACR” from Cliplight Manufacturing?
http://www.cliplight.com/

Brochure:
http://www.cliplight.com/getfile.php...ide%20Page.pdf

User Manual:
http://www.cliplight.com/getfile.php...per%20Seal.pdf
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Old 29-04-2006, 10:54   #2
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Gord, I guess the question is what kind of system you are going to use it on and how old is the system, I never used this product, but I would think it would be only a temp repair, and it your system is a fairly new one might cause more problems down the road.
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Old 05-05-2006, 10:52   #3
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Gord, no one, NO ONE, who makes refrigeration or AC systems, recommends any kind of sealers. Take that for what it is worth, with a grain of salt. But the companies that sell sealants also try to weasel a lot about what and when they might work. The problem is, if it doesn't fix the leak, now you've got a system full of "gunk" PLUS the leak.

What kind of system? How expensive to refill the gas? And have you been able to spot the leak?

Sealants can work, even Loctite makes "stuff" to seal pinhole leaks in nuclear reactor systems. But, none of the big chemical companies seem to make ac/refrigeration system sealants. Which makes me think, maybe they aren't such a good idea.
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Old 05-05-2006, 13:24   #4
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I would suspect that the sealant to use (if you must) would depend very much on what gas is in the system.
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Old 05-05-2006, 16:29   #5
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No experience, but.

http://www.ifma.org/daily_articles/2005/june/06_08.cfm
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Old 05-05-2006, 16:50   #6
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DeepFrz:
It was an article, similar to your link, that inspired my question.
I was intuitively dubious about the claims (like hellosailor & JGI417), but lacking first-hand knowledge, was wary of relying on my instinctive skepticism.
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Old 05-05-2006, 17:06   #7
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Based on all the research I did into refrigeration (most of it from Richard Kollmann), I would suggest there should be absolutely no foreign material in a refrigeration system at all. If it leaks... fix the leak with normal refrigeration parts. No properly assembled refrigerator should leak. If you impale one of the copper lines running to/from your condensor/evaporator, by all means go and purchase new line (comes sealed at the ends... available at Lowe's).
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Old 05-05-2006, 17:21   #8
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Gord, all of what I have read, including the materials for my EPA 609 certification (to service mobile AC systems) agrees with what Sean found. No manufacturer, no AC trade group, no one who makes anything *except* the sealant makers recommends them. And, the major companies like Permatex and Loctite make similar products--but will not touch the market for AC sealers. Which tells me that everyone who has to put their name behind it, says they don't work 100%.
The sealant companies inevitably waffle about their claims and, you may note, none of them will warranty your system against damage cuased by their products. Like, needing to replace the drier, evaporator, or compressor and do a complete flush and rebuild because there's goo in it.
I asked one of the sealant companies "Are you sure....for this specific use..." and not surprisingly, never got a reply.
Can they work? I'm sure they can. Sometimes. But that's a crapshoot and I for one, don't shoot craps. I'd rather find the leak, fix the leak, and know it shouldn't need any attention for another decade.
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Old 08-05-2006, 16:51   #9
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Right... and if you picture what happens at the thermoexpansion valve... any foreign material in there at all and you're refrigerator will stop working properly. (Not to mention the abuse the compressor would take)
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Old 08-05-2006, 17:18   #10
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Sean, in theory the sealants only solidify at the leak site (due to air and moisture) so in theory they won't plug an orifice tube or expansion valve. (AC systems have both, I'd guess refrigerators can use both as well.) Well, that's the theory from the MARKETERS.<G>

On my home planet, the practice of marketing, barristry, politics, or software design is firmly regulated. Violators are put to a lingering death. As a result, the few remaining programmers are highly paid, highly respected, and damn careful about debugging their code. You folks on Earth ought to consider something like that.<G>
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Old 08-05-2006, 17:20   #11
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Hellosailor.

Your home planet, wouldn't be the planet Vulcan. Would it?
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Sean, in theory the sealants only solidify at the leak site (due to air and moisture) so in theory they won't plug an orifice tube or expansion valve. (AC systems have both, I'd guess refrigerators can use both as well.) Well, that's the theory from the MARKETERS.<G>

On my home planet, the practice of marketing, barristry, politics, or software design is firmly regulated. Violators are put to a lingering death. As a result, the few remaining programmers are highly paid, highly respected, and damn careful about debugging their code. You folks on Earth ought to consider something like that.<G>
Well, of course... it wouldn't make sense to have a sealer that circulates around inside the system...

My gripe with the sealant issue is that it would be very hard to seal up a hole and *not* get some inside.
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:52   #13
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Sean-
Some confusion here. The AC system sealants are normally injected into the system, and rely on the gas leaking out to also carry them into the leak, where in theory they seal it. Meanwhile, the rest of the sealant is supposed to remain liquid, flowing in the system.
But stuff like LocTite, is designed to be applied to pinholes in reactor cooling tubes (literally!) from the OUTside. When used properly, it does not get into the system because surface tension holds it just on the pinhole area, where it cures and solidifies immediately. And when used strictly by the book, those miracles products work amazingly.

One is an internal "see what sticks to the wall" solution, the other is a fairly tightly aimed external sealer.

The actual chemistry of what goes on inside a modern ("freon") system is something we mortals should never have to deal with. Moisture causes hydroflouric acid to form. Gasses and lubricants and seals all are mutually exclusive about rotting, or working, with each other. And some of the gasses, if they leak and combust in a nearby flame source, turn into things that were banned after being used in WW1 as chemical warfare. (Phosgene gas.)
Nice stuff, huh? Of course, the older systems, still used commercially, use concentrated ammonia. That'll tear your lungs and eyes out REAL fast.

Getting a taste for warm beer yet, are we?<VBG>
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Old 09-05-2006, 13:29   #14
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OK first of as a qualifier. When it comess to refrigeration, I HAVE NO IDEA!
But just for interest. When I worked for Wynns oils many years ago, we had a "miricle product" that I really have to say was one of those unique Miricle products. It was a ratiator sealant. This stuff was simply increadible. We used to demonstrate it by filling a plastic bottle with water, then sticking it full of holes so it leaked like a sieve, and I mean like, really poor out. Then we would poor this green stuff into the botle. It would stop leaking instantly. But wait folks. It didn't stop there. then we would screw a cap on and place the bottle on the ground and jump on it to pressurise it. It would not spill a drop. The only time it ever went wrong was in one demonstration. One of the reps used a Polycarbonate CocaCola bottle. When he jumped onit, it split open and blew this green stuff all over his nice white shirt. Warning! it doesn't wash out of nice white shirts.
Anyway's, this stuff worked by being "inert" withine the cooling system. It looked no different to antifreeze. But as soon as it tried to squeeze through a hole and contacted air, it instantly expanded and made a totaly water tight blockage. Yet as soon as it was introduced back into the water system, it flowed around as normal once again.
You could pour it into the radiator and leave it in the cooling system for ever if you want. It would cause no harm at all. In fact, it was a good lubricant and cooling inhibitor rejuvinator.
HOWEVER, it was considered as an emergency repair, not a permanant repair material. So if you ever had a hole appear in the radiator, it would seal the hole, get you home where you could then get the radiator permanantly repaired.
I wonder if this AC stuff is intended for a similar use.

Oh and I should add, manufacturers of radiators and pumps etc and othyer components, abhord the idea of some product like this floating around inside the engine. It was poor understanding, protectionism and prejudice based on if one stop leak product was bad, therefore all stop leak products are bad.
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Old 09-05-2006, 13:37   #15
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Alan, the Wynn's stuff sounds like the Loctite sealer, even down to the green color. And since that was an aerobic cure material (cures when it hits a lot of free oxygen, like crazy glue) who knows, maybe you could dump Loctite in the radiator too.<G>

The thing with the AC products, is that the companies that make AC equipment and train AC techs are all unanimous about their song: NO contaminants in the system. Maybe they're just erring on the product sales side.<G> But then again, if they said "sure, use the goo" and it caused failures...they'd sell new systems anyway. Is that a win-win situation or a lose-lose situation? Hmmmm.

Damfino, but it the "goo" means a total system replacement...that's GOT to cost more time and money than a repair. I don't play the ponies, either.<G>
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