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Old 08-08-2010, 13:38   #16
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Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
You can retrofit the line organizers and clutches to older boat too. 300K to refit an older 50' boat? C'mon. I can completely rebuild a wooden 50 footer for a third of that. I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-80K depending on the scope.

For new standing/running rigging, new spars, new sails, new engine, new mechanicals, re-wire, new electronics, new ground tackle, new interior?
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Old 08-08-2010, 14:07   #17
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Earlier this week I spent a wonderful day sailing on a Friends boat in SF bay. It is a production boat that he bought new with a very lovely and comfortable interior.
I could have bought two of those boats for what I've spent buying and refitting my boat of the same size....and I did almost all the work myself....oh yeh...and it took me every summer since 2005 and just took her out this summer....and shes still not done!
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Old 08-08-2010, 14:32   #18
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Does the husband want to sail or work and have all his disposable income for the next 2 years go into a boat?

The only advantages to a complete refit is that you know exactly what went into the boat and you (theoretically) get exactly what you want.

Even if all the work is farmed out you are flying without a net if you don't spend considerable amounts of time supervising the boat work.

Not to be rude but if you and your husband have no time and no boat building skills it is absolutely preposterous to completely refit a boat.
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Old 08-08-2010, 15:01   #19
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That is one thing that is really nice about doing everything yourself: you have a lot of confidence and when something snaps in the night you know exactly what it is, what it took to install it, what tools you used, what the damage will be, and how to repair it. There are still new things breaking (and things broken yet to be replaced) that I'm learning, but I can look around my boat now and I don't feel overwhelmed anymore. The deck, the rig, underwater, etc. Pretty much everything but the engine, steering, bowsprit, and keel I've had to work on.

Edit: and I've worked on those too, just not *really* worked on them as in completely disassembled, serviced, and rebuilt.
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Old 08-08-2010, 16:21   #20
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My partner and I are in the process of refitting a 25 year old boat. I purchased the boat nearly 5 years ago. We don't have the money to pay others to do the work for us, and we both work full time so the refit process is a slow one. Being 100% honest, based on our experience, refitting is expensive. By the time we finish the refit, the initial (cheap) purchase price + the cost of refit will be such that we could have bought a more expensive, but "key-turn" boat to begin with. The only advantage to buying a cheap "fixer-upper" has been that we have been out on the water sooner, because the initial outlay was less.

Bear in mind that I am saying this, based on hundreds of hours of work, where the labor cost is free. If you are planning on paying shipwrights to do the work, it will be even more costly.
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Old 08-08-2010, 18:27   #21
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Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
For new standing/running rigging, new spars, new sails, new engine, new mechanicals, re-wire, new electronics, new ground tackle, new interior?

If the spars are still good, why replace them? Replace the wires yes.. Running rigging? It's not spun gold, just line and a couple grand covers it. Sails? Nope, I wasn't including sails. Engine? Rebuild what ya have for 3-4K. Which mechanicals? There's not that much to a boat. Re-wire? does it really need it? Electronics? How much do ya really need and what's wrong with what's on the boat? Ground tackle? What? That anchor not shiny enough? The fish don't care.... Interior is simply plywood and fabric.

What REALLY needs to be done to the boat? If ya have a REAL list, I can give a REAL estimate. All of those extra toys are just that, toys. My old boat still exceeds hull speed with 30 year old sails. Maybe I could point 5* closer with new rags but since I plan to be riding the trades most of the time with my fairly new chute, who cares?
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Old 09-08-2010, 21:35   #22
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Who are you fooling Charlie? You an't ever going to leave that boatyard with working 3 projects at a time...
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Old 09-08-2010, 21:49   #23
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If the spars are still good, why replace them? Replace the wires yes.. Running rigging? It's not spun gold, just line and a couple grand covers it. Sails? Nope, I wasn't including sails. Engine? Rebuild what ya have for 3-4K. Which mechanicals? There's not that much to a boat. Re-wire? does it really need it? Electronics? How much do ya really need and what's wrong with what's on the boat? Ground tackle? What? That anchor not shiny enough? The fish don't care.... Interior is simply plywood and fabric.

What REALLY needs to be done to the boat? If ya have a REAL list, I can give a REAL estimate. All of those extra toys are just that, toys. My old boat still exceeds hull speed with 30 year old sails. Maybe I could point 5* closer with new rags but since I plan to be riding the trades most of the time with my fairly new chute, who cares?
Well, you said 'completely rebuild', not fix whats broken. My definition of 'rebuild' is to return to within new specification.
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Old 09-08-2010, 23:37   #24
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When we started shopping for our dreamboat and I started to talk about rejuvenating an old, unloved but classically beautiful wooden ketch, my better half asked me "Do you want to spend the next two years being a sailor or a handyman?"

I very quickly came to the conclusion I wanted to sail.

Im sure its a wonderful feeling of accomplishment bringing an unloved piece of yesteryear back to life, but for me DIY spells "work" and sailing spells "adventure". Full respect to the DIY'ers out there, but to me sailing and refurbing are two totally separate (dare I say alien?) concepts. And if you run into unexpected expenses while you are cruising, at least it's happening somewhere more exotic than your local hardware store.
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:10   #25
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Toddsgirl, there are two types of folks getting into this sort of project, those well suited and those that are not. You're the later and should consider other options, such as bare boat charters, co-ownership options, leasing, borrowing a friends, etc. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you have to hire out the work, you might as well just save some money and buy new or slightly used, because it will be cheaper and less painful, particularly for the tenderfoot.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:08   #26
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refit $$$

We purchased a 1982 44' Cheoy Lee last month. This boat was basically original which means it had no advanced systems of any kind. The previous owner neglected the boat and did no maintainance at all he just used it and abused it. I am building a blue water long term cruising boat from these beginnings. I bought the boat in Connecticut and am doing the refit in the Bahamas (think cheap). First I have spent $15,000 in the yard in CT just to make the boat seaworthy for the insurance company and in order to bring it to the Bahamas. My budget includes paint, full electronics, complete rewire, upgrade and replace all systems, redo all interior wood, remodel galley and both heads, redo all fabrics, new appliances, generator, boomvang, rigging, airconditioning, dingy, outboard, davits. washer/dryer, refinish teak decks, watermaker, liferaft etc, etc, etc. I am doing ALOT of the work myself and have done previous refits before and my budget after I start the work in the Bahamas is over $100,000. This does not include the money to buy the boat. I did a refit on my last boat in a yard in Florida and they will charge you $90 an hour for labour, your boat will be held hostage in the yard for twice as long as you think and at the end of the process they will give you a bill for twice whatever you can estimate or imagine. Pick a number. This is ok if money and time are no object. You will get exactly what you want. Paint alone in any big yard will run you $800-$1,000 a foot for the hull only. That is double your entire original budget. I would rethink your plan.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:54   #27
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Who are you fooling Charlie? You an't ever going to leave that boatyard with working 3 projects at a time...
Yeah, well, I'm down to one paying project and Oh Joy for the moment. That Hatteras hasn't shown me any money yet. I'll get outta here some day. Why do ya think I'm spending all of this time teaching those boys?
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:57   #28
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Well, you said 'completely rebuild', not fix whats broken. My definition of 'rebuild' is to return to within new specification.
That's a fat definition. I would consider hull and mechanical (engine, driveline, standing rigging and steering) as requirements of a rebuild. Electronics are optional as are new sails and running rigging. It all depends on what someone think is a necessity. My definition of a necessity might vary greatly from some other folks who think they need all of these various "systems".
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:02   #29
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Originally Posted by rourkeh View Post
We purchased a 1982 44' Cheoy Lee last month. This boat was basically original which means it had no advanced systems of any kind. The previous owner neglected the boat and did no maintainance at all he just used it and abused it. I am building a blue water long term cruising boat from these beginnings. I bought the boat in Connecticut and am doing the refit in the Bahamas (think cheap). First I have spent $15,000 in the yard in CT just to make the boat seaworthy for the insurance company and in order to bring it to the Bahamas. My budget includes paint, full electronics, complete rewire, upgrade and replace all systems, redo all interior wood, remodel galley and both heads, redo all fabrics, new appliances, generator, boomvang, rigging, airconditioning, dingy, outboard, davits. washer/dryer, refinish teak decks, watermaker, liferaft etc, etc, etc. I am doing ALOT of the work myself and have done previous refits before and my budget after I start the work in the Bahamas is over $100,000. This does not include the money to buy the boat. I did a refit on my last boat in a yard in Florida and they will charge you $90 an hour for labour, your boat will be held hostage in the yard for twice as long as you think and at the end of the process they will give you a bill for twice whatever you can estimate or imagine. Pick a number. This is ok if money and time are no object. You will get exactly what you want. Paint alone in any big yard will run you $800-$1,000 a foot for the hull only. That is double your entire original budget. I would rethink your plan.
Fundamentals of Restoration Projects: This Old Boat
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That's an unfortunate fact and something we are trying to change. Unfortunately, I can only service my own little sailing patch (PNW) and can't offer an alternative for other areas. BTW, we paint for much less than that. Even on an old rat with mucho prep we come in at $185 per foot including materials.

Maybe I set up on the wrong coast?
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:32   #30
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I purchased and refit an older boat because:
1) I LIKED real wood and wanted real teak veneer wood interior, instead of the laminate I see at current boat shows. Someone told me the current stuff is more like pergo flooring than real wood.
2) Purchase and a BASIC refit of an older 50' boat cost less than half of a new production boat. It still took me over a year full time and cost twice as much as I thought, but I'm still hundreds of thousands ahead of buying new at a boat show. Things would be different if I paid someone to gut the interior and rebuild it; if I had that kind of money I suppose commissioning a new custom build like the Lats & Atts would be the way to go.
3) Newer boats did not have the beefy hull, keel, and tankage that I wanted. Money and custom build solves this one, too, but not an option for me.
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