Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-06-2011, 18:09   #16
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

I've seen aluminum masts that were painted to look like wood. I never got a real close look but from about 50' thay looked great.
__________________

__________________
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 18:23   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Whidbey Island
Boat: Bluewater Ingrid 38 Ketch- September
Posts: 76
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

I've epoxy coated spars with System Three clear coat and top coated with varnish. I had trouble with runs and drips in the epoxy. I recently did a winch base with Smith CPES as an undercoat and liked it a lot. It's water thin with no build up or runs. I'll be using CPES and twelve coats of Epiphanes when we refinish September's spars.
__________________

__________________
jrogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 18:40   #18
Commercial Member
 
Mark Johnson's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New Bern NC
Boat: Searunner 34 Trimaran
Posts: 1,565
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by heron237 View Post
what?, you varnish over epoxy, what is this amateur hour, epoxy doesn't have a uv component, all gloss varnishes do.
For clear finishes:

The reason one would "varnish over epoxy", (Like the base under this windlass that I installed a few years back), Is that the UV filters of the varnish will protect the epoxy from yellowing and eventually becoming brittle, from UV exposure. In this case I instructed the client that the varnish protective layer was essential, and must be maintained.

The epoxy, on the other hand, while lacking UV resistance, is a total vapor barrier, where as varnish is not. Varnish allows the wood to have a constantly changing moisture content, as it is not a water vapor proof coating.

For maximum wood stability and coating longevity, Varnish OVER a 100% solids epoxy (like West), is the way to go... AS LONG as one is willing to ALWAYS scuff and re apply the varnish regularly, to maintain a UV filter.

If not, they are better off with just varnish, and completely strip it once in a while, when they waited too long between re-coats...

Having said that... The problem with repeatedly stripping teak trim and the like, is that after enough "strips", the bungs become so thin that they pop out. Then the only fix is to remove EVERY fastener and countersink the holes deeper, so that it can be re bunged. It's a pain!

I avoid clear finishes on my own boat like the plague, but I suggest to my clients that IF they have and like varnished teak, they maintain it BEFORE it starts to fail, rather than let it fail, strip it, and re varnish, over and over, for the life of the boat.

Mark
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA060135.JPG
Views:	93
Size:	95.3 KB
ID:	28155  
__________________
Mark Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 22:18   #19
Eternal Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

When I got my boat my mast (and the rest of the boat) were painted "alunimun grey" (actually called Seattle grey). I stripped and varnished the below decks part and when I saw how beautiful it was I knew I would never forgive myself for not varnishign the whole thing when I had a chance. My wood mast (6" diameter at the base 47' long laminated Sitka Spruce, stepped on the keel, tapered and cambered) is stronger, more flexible and has a natural curve that would be hard to get in aluminum. With the finishes available you can make aluminum masts look similar tto wood, as long as there are no wood masts to compare them to. If I had to replace my mast, I would use the same materiel that it was designed to have 75 years ago (though the technology in wood mast making has increased dramatically in only the past 10 years).
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
wolfenzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 22:29   #20
Eternal Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

If I didn't want to tend to varnish I would not have gotten a wooden boat, it is a piece of art, the sweeping curves and wide variety of woods used. Everything was painted, but after I stripped the paint and put on a couple coat of varnish, someone who had known the boat for 30 years said "Someone's got to dress the old girl up".
In a discussion about "silver grey wood" it was pointed out there is a fine line between maintenance and neglect...and that crosses the line. The skipper of a schooer here in town told me this about varnish "Try it, if you don't like it, put another coat of varnish on it, paint it, then before you sell the boat strip of the paint and revarnish it" .If the wood you are about to paint would look nice varnished it is a thoughtful gesture to varnish before you paint, I can tell you from personal experience removing every bit of paint that was applied to bare wood is a real bitch.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
wolfenzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 22:57   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Far East Mariner 40
Posts: 303
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

I'm doing my masts now. Removed all of the hardware and used an inline air sander to remove the old varnish. Applied CPES and am varnishing using Z*Spar 2015 Flagship Varnish. If using CPES it's important to remove all of the old varnish because the CPES will lift it. I learned that the hard way.
__________________
I do all my own stunts.
vintageray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 23:16   #22
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

I prefer WEST epoxy with tropical hardener and thinned with MEK to CPES. CPES or Smiths, essentially the same product, both take much too long to cure in my opinion. You cant coat over CPES with traditional varnish until its cured because the high solvent content will cause solvent popping down the road unless you wait for a cure. Cure time can be 8 days, and once cured if you sand it for tooth your'e likely to blow through it somewhere defeating the purpose. If you use WEST you can thin your first coat 50% with MEK to make a CPS like substance that will cure overnite to the touch but still allow 24 hrs for chemical bonding. Then you apply several coats of WEST only slightly thinned with MEK to improve its brushing characteristics, which fills the grain nicely even on teak. You can chemical bond each coat, so no sanding. Once you've done this, yes you'll have some hangers to sand out because epoxy doesn't brush nice, unless you've got loads of practice. But I find the sanding goes quick, and then you're ready for varnish. Since the grain is already filled, which would take at least ten coats of varnish on top of CPES which doesnt fill the grain at all, you can acheive depth in your finish with less coats of varnish. Heres CPES cure times, you'll see it's from 2 days to 8 days.

CPES™-Wood based epoxy products to repair and resist wood rot.
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2014, 05:44   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Port Salerno, FL
Boat: Choy Lee Offshore 31' Ketch
Posts: 1
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

I've followed this thread, I am a new owner of a 45 year old Cheoy Lee Offshore 31 ketch. Previous owner did a horrendous job on sitka spruce spars. I'm ready to drop them and refinish, and looking for advice. Varnish over epoxy?
__________________
myshkin51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2014, 06:17   #24
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Refinishing Sitka Spruce Masts

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageray View Post
I'm doing my masts now. Removed all of the hardware and used an inline air sander to remove the old varnish. Applied CPES and am varnishing using Z*Spar 2015 Flagship Varnish. If using CPES it's important to remove all of the old varnish because the CPES will lift it. I learned that the hard way.
I have always used Z Spar Captain's Varnish on my spars as I was under the impression it is loaded up with more UV inhibitors than the Flagship. This mind set doesn't make sense though because the Flagship is slightly more costly.
__________________

__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Wooden Mast (Spruce) Approximately 67' and 45' sailmed52 Classifieds Archive 0 20-04-2011 10:10
Keel refinishing Fotoman Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 19-09-2008 12:45
changing a spruce timber mast to aluminum sctpc Multihull Sailboats 4 01-09-2008 17:56
Unstayed masts or stayed masts? Joli Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 29 22-07-2008 03:56
Balancing spruce Mast's with shims Max Mariner Monohull Sailboats 0 26-05-2007 12:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.