Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-11-2010, 00:40   #1
Marine Service Provider
 
Ben M-P's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Boat: Fareast, Mariner 40'
Posts: 177
Refastening Cost

I am curious about the cost of refastening a wood hull (36' LOD, 13' beam, cedar caravel planking)
I am looking for an approximate price (are we talking 5k or 50K).

Thanks,
Ben
__________________

__________________
Godspeed, as you travel the wave-road.
http://goingafloat.blogspot.com/
Ben M-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 05:34   #2
Registered User
 
marc2012's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: abbeville la
Boat: seawind II Patience
Posts: 542
Need to know if nailed or screwed.Size of fasteners,Most people put one between existing fasteners.Get a as accurate count as possible.Find out number per pound and price by keg or pound.Would recommend monel/ss,bronze priced prohibitive.Plugs & filler.It is best to fasten with same material.marc
__________________

__________________
marc2012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 05:57   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,391
Many years ago (when bronze was cheaper) I looked at a 40' wood motorsailor and estimated $10-12K just for the cost of the screws. The old fasteners were totally shot and I based on two per plank/frame joint. When I got that number did not even guess on labor or time involved but it would have been a lot.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 10:41   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
Ben M-P's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Boat: Fareast, Mariner 40'
Posts: 177
Sorry about that it is bronze screws, most of them seem to be all right but unfortunately a PO (I don't own the boat yet but am considering it) mixed added some SS screws.
The owner had a survey done when he bought it and one of the recommendations was to refasten the hull. He had it inspected again after the hull had been taken down to bare wood and that time both the inspector and the craftsman at the boat yard agreed that there was no need to refasten her at that time. I am more worried about having to do it in the future (is that a valid concern?) if I get the boat.

He sent me a more recent survey from after he finished some of the work on her and it looks pretty.
__________________
Godspeed, as you travel the wave-road.
http://goingafloat.blogspot.com/
Ben M-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 11:44   #5
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,779
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
you should be fine with what you already have in use. if you feel a dire need for bronze fasteners, there is a surplus house in sin diego that stocks fasteners at outlet pricing. get them here. carry as spares and boat will let you know when to replace them. isnt time yet'
what you have, even a mix of metals, isnt going to hurt anything. the two metals are somewhat compatible. they will not cause failure just because they are different from each other.

by the way---before i bought my solitary bird, i looked at sea witch as a possibility or me-- they are soo beautiful!
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 13:05   #6
PAR
Registered User
 
PAR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eustis, FL
Boat: 1960 Chris Craft, 1957 Clyde, 1961 Atkins, 1986 Macgregor 65, plus three of my own design and build
Posts: 239
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to PAR
Yes, it is a valid concern, but a normal expectation of planking on wooden yachts. Contrary to what Zeehag has said, it is a great concern about the mixing of fastener metals, especially under the LWL. Your first concern should be to remove the steel. This doesn't have to be done immediately, but don't go more then a couple of years or you can expect considerable degradation. I've been restoring boats for a number of decades and if there was one thing I could tell all wooden boat owners, it's get the iron out of their boat, particularly their planking fasteners.

The best way to get an idea of a refastening job is to count your planks and your frames. Then consider at least two fasteners per frame. The labor can be reduced considerably with your help.

There are a number of wholesale outlets around that carry fasteners for a bunch less then retail as Zeehag has pointed out. No one should be chased off by West Marine pricing.
__________________
PAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 00:50   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
Ben M-P's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Boat: Fareast, Mariner 40'
Posts: 177
That brings me to another question. If one was going to replace the SS with Bronze fasteners how you one figure out which were which?
And for the mixed metal issue which one is the anode (if that is the one that gets eaten)?
__________________
Godspeed, as you travel the wave-road.
http://goingafloat.blogspot.com/
Ben M-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 07:08   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: FL
Boat: Far East Mariner 40
Posts: 652
I assume the frames are bent not sawn? What shape are they in, will they need to be sistered? Obviously that will make a big difference in placement. We refastened a very old wooden cruiser and used Bronze/Silicon screws. Yes it was expensive, $2500, That included new Keel Bolts as well, that was in 1977; we actually only refastened about 45% below the waterline. However, we did strip out all caulking and recaulked the whole bottom, ya gotta love wood...
__________________
Islandmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 09:18   #9
Registered User
 
CharlieCobra's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PNW
Boat: Knutson K-35 Yawl "Oh Joy" - Mariner 31 Ketch "Kahagon" - K-40 "Seasmoke" - 30' Sloop "Baccus"
Posts: 1,290
We are just finishing a resto on a Kettenburg 40 (hull # 1) built in 1959. Very few fasteners needed replacing but the entire boat needed the seams reefed and re-caulked. Many of the older boats mixed galvanized steel bolts for framing with silicon bronze screws. The old steel bolts are typically rusted away and the surrounding wood iron sick. Replacing these old bolts with new galvanized steel after injecting CPES in the holes will usually last another forty years. Replacing them with SB will last longer. The question is how much money you have and how long will ya have the boat? For more info see our site or PM me.
__________________
CharlieCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 10:36   #10
S&S
Registered User
 
S&S's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: 48' 1963 S&S yawl
Posts: 851
Images: 6
FWIW, we're going on 45 years + on our original screws (bronze). If it's not leaking/moving and a sample of pulled fasteners look good, you don't need to refasten. Some "surveyors" like to recommend refastening when they have nothing else to say- whether the boat needs it or not.

Re mixing SS and bronze: we have both SS Acme thread keel bolts and bronze rods. I've pulled some and they're clean. While it's not optimal to have mixed metals it's not cause for immediate concern, like it would be if you had mixed galvanized and bronze. Sil bronze and 316 are pretty close on the galvanic scale. I would put pulling the steel screws on the "fairly short list' of things to do. The steel screws (silver) look quite different from bronze(brown or greeny brown) and are easy to tell apart.

Re frames: I recommend against sistering. Scarphing in a new heel is a better solution.
__________________

__________________
S&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So how much does it really cost? JaredPWagner Multihull Sailboats 8 17-11-2007 18:58



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.