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Old 02-09-2016, 08:36   #16
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
Not saying you don't have a superior way, but a router can absolutely be used to cut new grooves.

Before I realized that I had wet core, I re-cut a groove on one length near the outboard edge. For that, my guide was easily attached to the toe rail. Using a flush cut bit and a guide that went right up to the target groove, it was easy to verify its location and modify the shims between the guide and the toe rail. Pretty sure this is like router 101 stuff.

Granted I never solved the problem of what I'd do for the rest of the boards, but I was thinking I'd either grow my guide further inboard, or use hot glue / weights / etc to clamp it.



Exactly. A laminate trimmer is the best tool for the job, IMHO. I even have one with a triangular offset base, for getting in corners. Makes for less hand work at seam ends and corners. A router and guide gives a perfectly fair seam with beautiful bare wood on the seam sides, only light prep sanding required. Once you get it down, it's much much faster than other methods. Some equipment required, of course. I often use toggle clamps fixed with hot glue or double sided tape for clamping batten guides for routing to the deck, same as for clamping planks down in epoxy. For the layman, just google "toggle clamp" and click images to get an idea.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:45   #17
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Exactly. A laminate trimmer is the best tool for the job, IMHO. I even have one with a triangular offset base, for getting in corners. Makes for less hand work at seam ends and corners. A router and guide gives a perfectly fair seam with beautiful bare wood on the seam sides, only light prep sanding required. Once you get it down, it's much much faster than other methods. Some equipment required, of course. I often use toggle clamps fixed with hot glue or double sided tape for clamping batten guides for routing to the deck, same as for clamping planks down in epoxy. For the layman, just google "toggle clamp" and click images to get an idea.
I have used toggle clamps to hold down parts in a metal machining context. I think I can imagine how they might be used. Are you saying you would glue down a timber base, then screw toggle clamps to it to clamp batten guides, which work as the fence/guide for guiding the laminate trimmer?

It seems that the laminate trimmer is designed to trim the top surface of say a laminated table and so the guide works off the perpendicular edge. There are other trimmers, more like hand held routers - I imagine it is that type that you have in mind?

One problem I have is that in many places the groove is so worn that it can't be used as a guide anymore, in case you mean that I should use the existing groove as a guide.

You wouldn't have a picture would you? It speaks a thousand words.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:55   #18
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

We had four boats over the past 45 years with teak decks. After our first experience with recaulking, we trusted the job to those who do it for a living. Much better work, not much more costly when you factor in time and waste, and lasts much longer.
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Old 03-09-2016, 00:23   #19
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Originally Posted by poiu View Post
I have used toggle clamps to hold down parts in a metal machining context. I think I can imagine how they might be used. Are you saying you would glue down a timber base, then screw toggle clamps to it to clamp batten guides, which work as the fence/guide for guiding the laminate trimmer?

It seems that the laminate trimmer is designed to trim the top surface of say a laminated table and so the guide works off the perpendicular edge. There are other trimmers, more like hand held routers - I imagine it is that type that you have in mind?

One problem I have is that in many places the groove is so worn that it can't be used as a guide anymore, in case you mean that I should use the existing groove as a guide.

You wouldn't have a picture would you? It speaks a thousand words.

The old standby here is the Porter Cable laminate trimmer. You can get lots of different sub bases for it. I have units that have seen countless hours; I like to have one already set up for more common tasks, to reduce switch out time, so I have several. Great tool. In this case, a router will not create blow out on the seam edge like other power tool options might. Also, you can do seams right up to corners, extreme curves, etc etc. I know plenty of marine carpenters who make all finish cuts, especially cross cuts, on a router table specifically because of blow out issues. None is an acceptable level.


It takes more time to scribe and batten a seam using this method than it does to route it out and prep it for fresh seam compound. Just scribe off the seam the correct distance for your router base, and batten away using toggle clamps fixed to a piece of ply and double sided tape. For extreme curves with stiff battens you may have to go to lo tack hot glue, but then each toggle clamp must be removed very carefully to prevent deck damage, unless you are laying a new deck. Heating the clamp base till the glue melts works a treat. Obviously, rough sanding the deck first so you have a smooth surface to work off helps. And, equally obviously, you must use a router bit slightly larger than the original seam width.


There are many methods, and I'm sure most of them work to varying degrees. This is just what I've found to be most efficient for me, and to provide excellent results. No beat up seam sides or unfair seams. Comes out looking factory.
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Old 03-09-2016, 00:35   #20
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

And the offset trimmer is the must have for corners. Because it uses a belt, which gets burned up and needs replacement at $25 a pop, I use it only for corners and edges where it's needed, and use a regular trimmer elsewhere. You can get an offset base for your regular trimmer, but it'll be belted as well, and less robustly.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:05   #21
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

Minaret

The trouble we have with the Oysters is in many cases we don't have an existing seam to begin with. And if we were to rough sand the deck prior to be able to use the clamps, we'd loose all the seams and be looking at one large sheet of teak without any seams. I tried your method first and ran into the router bits burning up in the old dry teak, even when I went slow and didn't try to remove too much material.
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Old 03-09-2016, 04:42   #22
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
The old standby here is the Porter Cable laminate trimmer. You can get lots of different sub bases for it. I have units that have seen countless hours; I like to have one already set up for more common tasks, to reduce switch out time, so I have several. Great tool. In this case, a router will not create blow out on the seam edge like other power tool options might. Also, you can do seams right up to corners, extreme curves, etc etc. I know plenty of marine carpenters who make all finish cuts, especially cross cuts, on a router table specifically because of blow out issues. None is an acceptable level.


It takes more time to scribe and batten a seam using this method than it does to route it out and prep it for fresh seam compound. Just scribe off the seam the correct distance for your router base, and batten away using toggle clamps fixed to a piece of ply and double sided tape. For extreme curves with stiff battens you may have to go to lo tack hot glue, but then each toggle clamp must be removed very carefully to prevent deck damage, unless you are laying a new deck. Heating the clamp base till the glue melts works a treat. Obviously, rough sanding the deck first so you have a smooth surface to work off helps. And, equally obviously, you must use a router bit slightly larger than the original seam width.


There are many methods, and I'm sure most of them work to varying degrees. This is just what I've found to be most efficient for me, and to provide excellent results. No beat up seam sides or unfair seams. Comes out looking factory.
Thank you for your suggestions.
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:29   #23
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

Use a mini plunge Skill Saw and stack the blades (use 2 blades), two should provide the right width. You can make a guide for the saw to keep the cuts straight and create an attachment point out of PVC for a vacuum. Careful time consuming work. Hire someone to help and it should take about two weeks continuous.
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Old 03-09-2016, 07:46   #24
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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We had four boats over the past 45 years with teak decks. After our first experience with recaulking, we trusted the job to those who do it for a living. Much better work, not much more costly when you factor in time and waste, and lasts much longer.
Seems expensive when you think about it but IMHO this is absolutely the way to go! I can't tell you how many times over the past many years I've been half way through something that I thought would be simple and ended up saying "Crap, why did I do this?"
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Old 03-09-2016, 07:54   #25
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Originally Posted by rourkeh View Post
Use a mini plunge Skill Saw and stack the blades (use 2 blades), two should provide the right width. You can make a guide for the saw to keep the cuts straight and create an attachment point out of PVC for a vacuum. Careful time consuming work. Hire someone to help and it should take about two weeks continuous.
This is a good idea. If the OP is able to work in a more controlled environment, this is definitely a good idea that would shorten the job by two time consuming steps.

Stacking three blades would have saved me over 100 hours. The only thing... There will be no room for error when using a three blade stack.
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Old 03-09-2016, 08:04   #26
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Seems expensive when you think about it but IMHO this is absolutely the way to go! I can't tell you how many times over the past many years I've been half way through something that I thought would be simple and ended up saying "Crap, why did I do this?"
Obviously you've never faced a $125,000 job on an expensive boat. I guess it's easy for you to sit there at your computer screen and imagin spending someone else's money.
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:17   #27
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Obviously you've never faced a $125,000 job on an expensive boat. I guess it's easy for you to sit there at your computer screen and imagin spending someone else's money.
Don't quite follow the logic here, who's imagining spending other's money? I just did the caulking on our cockpit teaks and would second the mini skill saw with a guide for redoing the lips (btw, from the pic on the first post, I don't see a difference to a standard teak deck vs. Oyster - what is it?). The problem with the skill saw is that you can't do the ends of the seams because of the round blade. I just used a chisel to cut the last few inches, which works ok if you're careful. I'd practice on scrap wood before doing anything. There's a high risk of making expensive mistakes. I did - then again, Sabina isn't exactly an Oyster, so the damage wasn't that expensive .
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:17   #28
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Obviously you've never faced a $125,000 job on an expensive boat. I guess it's easy for you to sit there at your computer screen and imagin spending someone else's money.
You are unpleasant to talk to.
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:23   #29
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

Not sure if it has been mentioned. But we used a skill saw to route the new lines in the more straight lines. I found two blades that were thin and both equaled around 3/16" and went to town. The remaining amount I used a router with 3/16" bit. And whatever couldn't be had with that I just carefully scraped a new groove with a reefing hook.

Good luck.

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Old 03-09-2016, 09:23   #30
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Re: Recaulking worn teak decks

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Minaret

The trouble we have with the Oysters is in many cases we don't have an existing seam to begin with. And if we were to rough sand the deck prior to be able to use the clamps, we'd loose all the seams and be looking at one large sheet of teak without any seams. I tried your method first and ran into the router bits burning up in the old dry teak, even when I went slow and didn't try to remove too much material.
Perhaps a cheap single flute router bit? Or too much depth of cut per pass? I dunno, I've done whole boats much larger than yours with a single bit, and it was still sharp enough to keep going when done.
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