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Old 09-04-2016, 13:37   #1
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Rebedding Deck Hardware

About to start doing some refits and maintenance to a new to me 07 Beneteau Oceanis 40. One of the first things that need work is some of the deck hardwear, thus i need a bit of advice.

First, Is it always advisable to drill out the core and fill with an epoxy or if the core is still okay is it fine to skip this step and ensure a hell of a good seal job on the hardwear?

Second; what is the best type of sealant to use? I have been reading a bit about Butyl tape but am wondering peoples views?

Most of the boat stanchions are sitting on top of the teak decks, is there anything special i need to do related to this?

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Old 09-04-2016, 15:24   #2
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

If there is hardware, there should have been some core substitute in place already. When you only re-bed things, you do not need to remove any core. Still - check the condition when the item is removed, prior to rebedding.

Yes. Where there is a new drill thru, some of the core should be removed and substituted. I normally do this with an allen key on a drill machine. Tape below and fill completely with thick epoxy/filler. Next dry through this epoxy plug. There are other, more elegant methods.

I use 3M sealants and avoid Sikaflex. I had problems twice waiting for 292i (or is it 291i?) which then never set. I was put off. There are also other good brands, I used Bostik while in NZ it was very good. The type of the sealant depends on the job. I very often use 5200FC as it is often at hand and seems to set and last very well. Specific jobs may ask for specific goo - esp deck jobs and glassing. Look up Sika or 3M websites they give good guides.

I noticed that thorough wiping of the work area with solvent/degreaser and then removing excess goo while still fluid tends to give you very clean edge that lasts longer than the more common press and squeeze, then cut, 'technique'.

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Old 09-04-2016, 15:36   #3
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Always seam the core, there is no such thing as a good enough seal on the hardware to prevent core rot eventually.

I prefer butyl tape over everything else these days, basically since I started using it, it has become the only thing I bother with. Unless I need the gluing properties of something else.
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Old 09-04-2016, 18:09   #4
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Bed-it butyl tape all day for deck hardware.

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Old 09-04-2016, 18:24   #5
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

A word of advise !!! I gave this link to my friend Compass Marine Web Store Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
He found some butyl for like 2 dollars cheaper and ordered it and it was like old school caulking that drys out in a few years not good at all
Have a look at the how to on the same web site
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Old 10-04-2016, 16:29   #6
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

The best long term way is drill a well oversize hole. Fill with epoxy and high density filler mix. After dry, drill a pilot hole. Use add'l epoxy as a fastener lube and drive the fastener. Now the screw is encased in epoxy and water has no path to the wood or core. Whatever bedding compound you use is less important.
Stanchions and other hardware fastened into wood or cored hulls need the fasteners isolated from the wood. Otherwise small amounts of water works it's way down the threads and into the wood or core. Even before you notice the stanchion is loose. Then you have a bigger repair.
I've been doing this for 50+ years. I was a shipwright and later I had a marine business that included new construction to salvage. Mostly commercial boats getting heavy use. I got to see boats years after the fastening was done and could judge the work done.
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Old 10-04-2016, 22:18   #7
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

One of the big problems with core materials is they are compressible. Torque on the fitting, especially lifeline stanchions, compresses the core, breaks the bond of the caulk and eventually leaks. Routing out the core with a Dremel 199 bit and filling with thickened epoxy takes care of much of the compressibility issues with fasteners and seals off the core from water intrusion even if the fastener leaks. No need to drill an oversize hole with the 199 bit, start the bit through the outer laminate at a 90 angle makes a small puka that will usually be covered by the hardware.
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Old 11-04-2016, 00:57   #8
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

I used Sikaflex 292 and 3M 5200 on my steel boat and in six years, have not had a single deck fitting leak - that includes all the stainless bollards that have held the boat in up to 60kts (15t boat).

Once you've drilled the hole and dry-fitted the bolts / screws, hit it with sika 5200 on top of the hole (and a bit below), screw it down nice and tight, then use baby wipes to clean up excess mess. I was put onto them a few years back and they are amazing - also citrus wipes work quite well....

Oh yes, and be prepared to get goo everywhere... no matter how tidy you are, it always seems to find it's way onto your clothing (and into your hair, between your fingers, etc etc... )

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Old 11-04-2016, 07:15   #9
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Thanks for everyone's feedback!

So if i'm understanding things correctly, if i'm simply removing the old hardware to rebed it, I should not need to drill out the core and fill (unless of course i take a look and it looks like hell). When drill new holes this I should use the core technique.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:07   #10
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

went through this a lot. At the very least pour alcohol or acetone in the hole and let it dry with metal tape on top. A very simply way I have done is to drill a slightly larger hole over your small hole. Like 1/4 around the edge and reline it. When i have done this where a deck had moisture, drilled small holes on the inside of the hull, so it would dry out. Now I might drill 50 1 inch holes (what needed) , get ALL the rot out and fill. 50 grit, then gel coat. It is pretty easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduck View Post
Thanks for everyone's feedback!

So if i'm understanding things correctly, if i'm simply removing the old hardware to rebed it, I should not need to drill out the core and fill (unless of course i take a look and it looks like hell). When drill new holes this I should use the core technique.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:42   #11
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduck View Post
Thanks for everyone's feedback!

So if i'm understanding things correctly, if i'm simply removing the old hardware to rebed it, I should not need to drill out the core and fill (unless of course i take a look and it looks like hell). When drill new holes this I should use the core technique.
Most builders are hit or miss when it comes to removing core under deck hardware. Recent builders have gotten smarter and have started using G10 core where hardware will go, but not all of them, and not everywhere. My advice is to assume everything will need the core removed, but you may get lucky.

Assuming the core isn't already destroyed all you need to do is drill up from the back side with a 2 size larger drill bit to remove the bottom layer of glass and core. Tape the bottom hole with duct tape, pour in thickened epoxy, let it set, then redrilling from the top thru the epoxy plug. Then remount the hardware with butyl tape.

It's basically a two day job to redo all the hardware on the boat. Day one remove the hardware, drill out the core, and pour the epoxy. Come back the next day and drill thru the plug and rebed and remount the gear.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:46   #12
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes. Where there is a new drill thru, some of the core should be removed and substituted. I normally do this with an allen key on a drill machine. Tape below and fill completely with thick epoxy/filler. Next dry through this epoxy plug. There are other, more elegant methods.

I like this method as it doesn't disturb either "skin", yet you end up with a large in-compressible plug to attach hardware to, and this plug distributes the load over a wide area.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:42   #13
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Surface care/cleanup. When you're ready to bed it in your googe of choice, take the time to outline the area and item to be bedded with some painters' tape. That way, whatever squeezes out the sides can be cleaned off (with a gloved finger) without making a mess. We do it and then remove the tape while the googe is still wet. Works a charm.

Example of (way too much!) tape on a 3" dorade vent install on a cabintop --but you get the idea.

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Old 11-04-2016, 12:38   #14
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Re: Rebedding Deck Hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberduck View Post
Thanks for everyone's feedback!

So if i'm understanding things correctly, if i'm simply removing the old hardware to rebed it, I should not need to drill out the core and fill (unless of course i take a look and it looks like hell). When drill new holes this I should use the core technique.
If you have the time and inclination, rout out the core and fill all the pukas with thickened epoxy. Just because the hole is already there doesn't mean it should be left as is. There is nothing magical about new pukas that only they require the core routing and filling technique.

Stumble, would like to know how you manage to remove all the hardware from your deck in a day. Took three days to pull the hardware off my deck and it was largely a two man operation with lots and lots of boat yoga involved. Took longer to reinstall with all the dropped nuts and washers that disappeared. Filling he pukas was the easy part.
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