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Old 07-10-2014, 10:48   #1
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Re-installing Stanchions

Have removed all the stanchions, dried out a couple of spots where there were leaks into the core, over drilled the holes and filled with thickened epoxy, made nice big SS backing plates and about ready to re-install, but.

The stanchions were originally installed with a soft pad between the base and the deck. Looks like some kind of rubber or vinyl. The old pads are dried, cracked and not useable however I think I need to find some kind of replacement pad instead of just bedding with butyl tape under the base.

My thought is that stress on the stanchion will put a lot of pressure around the edges of the base which would make lots of little cracks in the gel coat. Putting a pad under the base would prevent the hard spot and reduce the chance of the cracking.

Is my logic correct here? If so, any recommendations on what to use? I have some nice, heavy neoprene but it's black and I think something white would look better.

A friend suggested a layer of 5200 under the bases. Don't want to bed them with 5200 but tempted to use 5200 to make a pad but not glued to the deck.


Thanks
Skip
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:57   #2
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Don't use 5200, you might want to get them off someday.

Butyl tape

Re-Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:18   #3
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Don't use 5200, you might want to get them off someday.

Butyl tape

Re-Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
No, no, never would bed them with 5200. I might want to get them off someday.

I said make a pad out of 5200. Put down a layer of wax paper on a board, coat the bottom of the stanchion base with 5200, flatten onto the wax paper leaving 1/8 - 3/16" of 5200 on the base, let cure, remove wax paper, trim the excess around the edge of the base. Next use a counter sink bit to make a space around the top of each hole in the deck, insert bolts through the stanchion base and through the pad, put a collar of butyl tape around each bolt just under the pad to fill the counter sunk area, bolt down.

Voila, stanchions with a pad to cushion the force around the edges but free to remove and bedded properly with butyl.

My question. Am I overthinking this? Is a pad really necessary? Would it reduce gel coat cracking or would that be a problem even with a pad? Suggestions on another material that I could just cut out a pad?

I have to think the pads were there for a reason since there was some kind of bedding compound under the pad.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:50   #4
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

I think you are overthinking it. Butyl tape should do it. Must be some squeeze with that, but most stancions I've seen bend before they crack the deck. Although some spider cracks do appear on some boats...seems like mostly racers or production boats. so I suppose it's boat dependent... Your boat is pretty heavy built right?
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:55   #5
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

If you are concerned about the stanchion bases torquing the deck, put reinforcing glass under the pads. Buy laminated sheet glass in 1/8"-1/4" thickness from McMaster-Carr, cut it into pads an 1" or more larger than the stanchion base, epoxy them to the deck and reinstall the stanchions on them. This is probably over kill but would give you stanchion bragging rights in the marina.

I would not use anything but caulk under the bases. A compressible pad will allow the stanchions to rock ever so slightly and probably cause leaks around the fasteners.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:56   #6
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

If your stanchions have ss bases already, think of it this way: by raising them, you are increasing the moment arm when someone grabs them and introducing yet another layer of potential leaks.

Follow the directions in the link I gave you and you should eliminate laks for the next decade.

Good luck.
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Old 07-10-2014, 13:05   #7
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I think you are overthinking it. Butyl tape should do it. Must be some squeeze with that, but most stancions I've seen bend before they crack the deck. Although some spider cracks do appear on some boats...seems like mostly racers or production boats. so I suppose it's boat dependent... Your boat is pretty heavy built right?
My experience so far with butyl tape based primarily on rebedding all the ports (old and new) is that over time and in warm weather most of the butyl in the flat areas squeezes out until there is just a very thin layer left, hence the need to use a counter sink bit to make a small well around the top of the holes to capture a bigger glob of butyl to better seal the hole.

So my guess is, bedding with butyl the stanchion base will effectively be sitting on the deck with little to no cushion. Yes the Pearson is fairly solid but there are already gel coat cracks around the stanchion bases either side of the lifeline gates where people have used the stanchions as a handholds to pull themselves on board.
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Old 07-10-2014, 13:19   #8
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
If your stanchions have ss bases already, think of it this way: by raising them, you are increasing the moment arm when someone grabs them and introducing yet another layer of potential leaks.

Follow the directions in the link I gave you and you should eliminate laks for the next decade.

Good luck.
Thanks Stu,

Already have that link and pretty much memorized those pages long ago. That's part of my bedding and sealing bible.

From what I recall from my classes on static and dynamic forces I would think that adding 1/8' to a 32" stanchion would add almost nothing to the moment arm at the base. Any difference would be lost in the variation of force depending on whether the stanchion was grasped and pulled at the top or a few inches lower.
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Old 07-10-2014, 13:25   #9
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
My experience so far with butyl tape based primarily on rebedding all the ports (old and new) is that over time and in warm weather most of the butyl in the flat areas squeezes out until there is just a very thin layer left, hence the need to use a counter sink bit to make a small well around the top of the holes to capture a bigger glob of butyl to better seal the hole.

So my guess is, bedding with butyl the stanchion base will effectively be sitting on the deck with little to no cushion. Yes the Pearson is fairly solid but there are already gel coat cracks around the stanchion bases either side of the lifeline gates where people have used the stanchions as a handholds to pull themselves on board.
Yeah, I thought that was what you wanted to use. I'm a 5200 guy! There's always teak or starboard blocks under the stancions to spread the load.....
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Old 07-10-2014, 14:38   #10
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Little to no cushion? If installed per Maine Sail's suggestions, there is plenty of cushion.
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Old 07-10-2014, 14:50   #11
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Skipmac,

The cracks around the gate suggest light build. My guess is that strong backing plates is the answer, but you might want to repair the cracks first, just for the cosmetics of it.

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Old 07-10-2014, 18:21   #12
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Skipmac,

The cracks around the gate suggest light build. My guess is that strong backing plates is the answer, but you might want to repair the cracks first, just for the cosmetics of it.

Ann
Thanks Ann,

I think the build on the Pearson is pretty good. Not a tank but no lightweight. The cracks are just around the base of stanchion the PO used to hoist himself on board, probably exacerbated over time by this breaking the not very good original factory seal, letting water into the core around the stanchion and creating weak spot.

The cracks are indeed just surface cracks and only cosmetic and are on my to do list but that list is very, very long. I'm afraid some of the minor cosmetic issues won't rise to the top for a while.
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Old 07-10-2014, 18:54   #13
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

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Little to no cushion? If installed per Maine Sail's suggestions, there is plenty of cushion.
Hi Stu,

Maybe I am using the terminology in a different way than you. Look at the photo on this page labeled "The Original Butyl at 20 Years Old".
Re-Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

To me the butyl under that cleat is not what I'm talking about. Looks like less than 1/64". Certainly more than enough to make a waterproof seal but not what I am thinking about when I refer to a cushion under the stanchion base. This is also consistent with what I'm getting around the trim rings of my New Found Metal ports that I installed following the exact procedures on Maine Sail's how to article.

I'm thinking about something minimum 1/8" thick to prevent the hard edge of the stanchion base from cracking the gel coat when the stanchions are pushed hard. Pearson put pads like this under the stanchion bases when they built the boat. It wasn't for sealing because they put caulk under the pads and into the holes bored through the deck for that. Since the pads didn't really show it wasn't for cosmetic reasons so there must have been some functional reason.
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Old 07-10-2014, 20:18   #14
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Any kind of rigid material shaped on a bevel out from the stanchion will spread the load. The thicker the spacer the wider the footprint. I don't think 5200 would count and uv kills it.
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:33   #15
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Re: Re-installing Stanchions

Skipmac,

If the backing plate underneath the stanchion is large enough, you won't get gelcoat cracks from levering on the stanchions. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me to be a deal of spreading out the load.

For background, we have never had a boat that had (or required?) rubber pads under the stanchion bases. However, if you're convinced they need them, why not go get some thin hard rubber pads? from a rubber products seller? As long as you did good with the backing plates and your choice of sealant, you ought to be okay.

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