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Old 09-11-2007, 13:06   #1
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question about cost:bottom job, sails, rigging???

I have found a boat I would like to purchase and plan to do a lot of work to her myself, she is an 89 hunter 37, I am buying her from the original owner but he admits to not sailing or doing anything with the boat for 3 years, he claims that he starts the engine on a regular basis, but that's another story. . . I assume on a boat this age I will need to replace the sails, rigging, and go over the bottom. . . I plan to do all the work myself, so could someone give me a hint as to what costs I would be looking at please? He told me the sails and rigging are original and the boat has been sitting in the water behind his house. . . oh, I also need a roller furling unit for the headsail, for some reason it doesn 't have one. . .I am anticipating around 7K for all of this. . . am I way out of line??? thanks, Dusitn
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Old 09-11-2007, 13:43   #2
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Hard to say from a distance...

Without seeing the boat and gear I don't think anyone can give you a sense of whether your guesstimate is realistic or not. It's a crap shoot. With the boat in the water, it's going to be really tough to know what's going on below, the hull could be fine or it could be pox ridden and waterlogged.

You might consider hiring a professional (ie. surveyor) to look at the boat and give you an informed opinion. You can often get this done for less than the cost of a pre-purchase or insurance survey and the cost could turn out to be the best money you ever spent.
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Old 09-11-2007, 13:57   #3
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sails 6-10K furler 3-4K paint $300 rigging ?? probably lots. But i would get a survey and see what's really necessary. The sails might be still ok. maybe a bit baggy but they might do for now. 89 isn't that old. If you get a furler you'll need a new headsail.
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:00   #4
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Thanks for that info, I was planning on doing something of the sort but what I am really looking for is what would it cost to get new sails (used would be fine if they are nice, would they be easy to find?), the roller furling unit, the rigging and the cost of the materials needed to refinish the bottom, I guess, if it's in bad shape when we get it out of the water I may have to find a diff boat, eh???

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Originally Posted by jdoe71 View Post
Without seeing the boat and gear I don't think anyone can give you a sense of whether your guesstimate is realistic or not. It's a crap shoot. With the boat in the water, it's going to be really tough to know what's going on below, the hull could be fine or it could be pox ridden and waterlogged.

You might consider hiring a professional (ie. surveyor) to look at the boat and give you an informed opinion. You can often get this done for less than the cost of a pre-purchase or insurance survey and the cost could turn out to be the best money you ever spent.
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:03   #5
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sails 6-10K furler 3-4K paint $300 rigging ?? probably lots. But i would get a survey and see what's really necessary. The sails might be still ok. maybe a bit baggy but they might do for now. 89 isn't that old. If you get a furler you'll need a new headsail.
So sails are really that expensive? I couldn't find them used? Aren't there "totaled" boats around. . .LOL, I come from a world where I repair cars. . . mostly with used parts. . .If will just be my wife and I so I think I really need the roller furling. . . So I guess a better question might be this: Are there people running around the Caribbean (not off the coast of FL) with the original rigging and sails on boats this old? Thanks, Dustin
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:04   #6
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Vasco's post pretty much covered sails/furler. Used sails are available from several sources on the web, just google used sails and you'll find lots. Don't forget the electrical/mechanical systems. If the boat hasn't seen much use there's a good chance this stuff is not going to be in good shape. There's a lot more to consider than just the sails and rig. Don't want to scare you off, we bought a '90 and it required very little, it has the original rig and sails and they are in very good shape, but I've also had used boats that went the other way and it was ugly financially.
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:10   #7
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Used sails might be no better than the sails on the boat. Hard to get a set of used ones that fit. Boats that are totalled like in hurricanes usually the sails are the first things to go. As to people running around with old sails and rigging, lots of them! I have a twenty year old boat with original main and standing rigging. I've had it since new. Going to replace the running rigging next year, I'm scared to go aloft with it.
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:16   #8
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OK, that helps me guys, I appreciate your advice. . . I have already considered the costs of electrical, interior work, etc. . . I have plans to alter the layout a bit, new 800Ah bank, solar, wind, etc. . . all of which I am familiar with the relative costs, but I am not so familiar with the rigging and sails as far as costs. . .so this is a big help, anyway, even if the boat needs all of the above it should be worth 20k wouldn't you think. . . I don't see many of these for sale under 50K. . .
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Old 12-11-2007, 13:40   #9
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Easiest thing to do is get quotes. Call the sailmaker, rigger, and yard for quotes on what you want to replace and work you want done. All these guys will know the boat and it will be easy for them to quote you. If you go forward to a survey also get the engine checked out by sending an oil sample in for analysis. If you decide to buy hold money ($5k) in escrow for the engine till you run it for a bit. Do not release it till you are satisfied.

My guess, $7k is not enough.
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Old 12-11-2007, 14:54   #10
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you don't mention alot of items that are pricey you might find yourself needing: ground tackle for instance, both anchors and chain and do you need a windlass? autopilot or vane? the running rigging will be shot from u/v if its original and is very expensive. is there a diy yard in your area? they are becoming tough to find in the U.S.
you will be surprized how the little bits and pieces add up..
i believe in refits; but you must do your homework.
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Old 12-11-2007, 16:40   #11
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We recently did bottom $1300 including hauling , yard fees, 5 coats paint, blister repairs materials. used sails can be found to fit. Try masthead in St Pete. They have a searchable database with hundreds of sails all categorized to weight, dimensions and shape. I did all my running rigging with 3 strand nylon, its cheap, strong and the only difference Ive noticed is I have to adjust halyards a touch when it rains. Did all four halyards, jib sheets and main traveler including shackles for under $150 from a local salvage yard. Dont have to spend a fortune to go sailing.
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Old 12-11-2007, 16:40   #12
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I would higly recommend hiring a proffessional marine surveyor. It may cost you a couple hundred bucks and you may even decide not to buy the boat when you read the report. If that's the case, it's the cheapest & best $500 that you ever waisted. If you decide to purchase the vessel after reading the survey, you will be much better aware of the real condition of the vessel and what you need to get it sea worthy.

You are probably correct about the rigging. Even if the swages aren't cracked (yet) it would be a wise move to replace the rigging. It doesn't have to be expensive either. All you have to do is measure the rigging in place. Take those measurements to a rigger or West Marine. All they have to do is cut the wire and press the swages (insist on 316 stainless swages, made in the US). Take the wires back to your boat and install them with the mast in place. Do the lowers first, then the uppers. As long as you don't weigh 450#, you won't have any trouble with the mast holding your weight.

If you have a roller furling head-sail, I would recommend going with 1 size larger forestay. Replace the forestay first, then the backstay, then the shrouds. One wire at a time. It's no big deal. You could even have a rigger come down to the boat and "Tune" the rigging if you can't do it (but you can).

Before you do the rigging, however, I would recommend inspecting all chainplates for cracks, carefully, with a high power magnifying-glass. Any chainplates that go through the deck should be removed and sent to be x-rayed. I would also recommend, polishing the chain-plates by machine then send them out to be electro-plated (the plater will tell you what grit to get the metal sanded to before polishing). S/S will fail 4 times faster if there are scratches for water and salt to collect in. Also, if it does crack later, it will stand out like a sore thumb.

The most common chainplate failure is where the chainplate is encapsulated in the deck. In order for S/S to be "Stainless", it must have access to oxygen (NEVER paint S/S). When it is robbed of oxygen, it will corode and ultimately fail under load. I wouldn't trust 20-year-old chainplates that go through the deck. The surveyer will probably make a note on the survey that he could not inspect through-deck chainplates (CYA). It may even be worth while to just replace them. There could be internal cracking that may not even show up on x-ray.
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Old 12-11-2007, 16:49   #13
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We recently did bottom $1300 including hauling , yard fees, 5 coats paint, blister repairs materials. used sails can be found to fit. Try masthead in St Pete. They have a searchable database with hundreds of sails all categorized to weight, dimensions and shape. I did all my running rigging with 3 strand nylon, its cheap, strong and the only difference Ive noticed is I have to adjust halyards a touch when it rains. Did all four halyards, jib sheets and main traveler including shackles for under $150 from a local salvage yard. Dont have to spend a fortune to go sailing.
Steve
3-strand nylon stretches like a rubber band. It will stretch up to 25% of it's original length. That's why it is used for anchor line. It takes the shock off of your ground tackle and helps eliminate the anchor being jerked out. It may be OK for your mainsheet but not for jib sheets or halyards.

Dacron lines have very low stretch and that's why they are used for running rigging. You don't want your sheets or halyards stretching and putting your sails out of trim when the wind gusts. Dacron is also a lot easier on your hands.

I'd find used dacron lines if you need to save $, rather than use nylon for running rigging.
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Old 12-11-2007, 22:18   #14
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Personally....I would do as the previous posters have suggested, and hire a SAMS or NAMS surveyor to go over the boat, both in the water, and on the hard. A 1989 boat is not that old. But a good surveyor can give you a ton of information to make informed decisions.

If the rigging that was put on the boat originally was of good quality, it should still be good now. My Morgan 33OI...that we bought when it was over 25 years old had the original rigging and sails on it. I had the boat re-rigged completely...for a little over $1200.00 a few years ago. It only needed one or two shrouds replaced...due to minor cracks in the swages. So I had the whole boat done so all of the rigging was new. The sails were in fair condition, but the 150% genny needed a new UV cover...so we went them all off to Sailcare, ( Sail Care ) and had them cleaned and repaired. That too cost us about $1200.00 and the sails when they came back were like brand new. When we sold the boat, the buyer was amazed at the condition of those sails.

You can box the sails up and send them to them....they will check them out and give you an estimate for cleaning and any needed repairs. I was 100% satisfied with the quality or their work and customer service. Were I to buy another older sailboat....I would send them to them before I would ever think about buying new or used sails.

As far as the bottom job...depending on the layup of the hull...its quite possible that all that will need to be done is a good power-washing, some sanding, and a couple coats of new paint. On the other hand, if the boat has blisters...it made need repairs ranging from fixing a few blisters, to a full peel job followed by putting on an epoxy barrier coat that can run up over $5000.00 depending on the where and who.

I don't know much about the quality of the hulls on Hunters, but I know that my Morgan which was over 25 years old when we bought her....was still relatively blister free...and built like a tank.

Start with a full survey....and go from there. Its worth it.
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Old 12-11-2007, 22:40   #15
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You can find everything used on Ebay and by haunting Craig's lists in large coastal cities. The problem is the definition of used. Some people offer lightly used quality stuff that is almost as good as new but typically goes for 50% or less of new discounted cost. Others market crap with low res digital images and inventive descriptions which also sells for the same price. FYI, a NOS ProFurl jib furler that would probably work on your boat just went for $1,200 on Ebay. A very lightly used Hood furling 150 genoa that was almost perfect for my 35' boat sold for $330. The mainsail is about the only sail that is really boat specific and will be hard to find.

I'm doing a refit of a '69 Pearson 35 and have bought everything from self tailing winches to spinnakers off the internet. Have had to be careful, closely look at the digital photos and request more if I need them, and ask the seller specific questions but have only been burned on two small reefing winches that I paid $135 for.

Sails may not be all that bad on the boat, btw. Sails deteriorate from exposure to UV and abuse underway. If the boat has been lightly used and sitting in it's slip most of it's life, they could be like new. For the past 8,000 years, we've gone to sea without roller furling. It's only been in the last 20-30 years that roller furling has become de riguer for sailing boats. The boat can be sailed anywhere and in any conditions, actually in worse conditions, with hank on sails. Furling is a convenience, not a necessity.

Now the real problem, the boat you're talking of rehabbing. No one has ever accused a Hunter of being a stout, well built boat. Great Dockominiums but definitely protected water sailboats.

Aloha
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