Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-10-2011, 07:14   #1
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Propane Pain

I have something going on that I hope someone recognizes.

I have 2 horizontal propane bottles mounted on my cabin top. When I use one specific bottle I get very very low pressure. When I switch to the other bottle everything is fine.

Is there something wrong with the pressure sensing system in the odd bottle?
__________________

__________________
"Waste your money and you’re only out of money, but waste your time and you’ve lost a part of your life.” (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:24   #2
Registered User
 
ADMPRTR's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
Boat: CS36 Traditional
Posts: 551
Re: Propane Pain

Sorry, I have no solution to offer you but I had a similar problem with a propane tank that prevented it from being filled in addition to low pressure output.

What was explained to me was that there is a safety value that prevents uncontrolled discharges (i.e. if the hose was cut) and apparently this can become locked in the closed or half closed position. Sometimes you can get it to free up but in my case I ended up replacing the tank.

It was also explained to me that the best way to to avoid this situation is to turn on the solenoid and then slowly open the valve on the tank, gradually building up the pressure in the line. That will prevent the emergency valve from activating. However, that is a preventative solution, not a cure.

Edit: To state the obvious confirm that the line from the bad tank is not kinked or compressed but that is unlikely.
__________________

__________________
ADMPRTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 09:51   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Propane Pain

Emergency valve????? Normal nautical propane tanks contain only a rotating valve and if they are comply with the new USA regulations, they have an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) valve. See below. These tanks are for vertical use only as the OPD is a simple "float valve" that closes off the valve when the liquid level in the propane tank rises.
- - Horizontally mounted propane tanks do not have OPD's unless they also have an additional outlet fitting. See below.
- - If the tank you are having problems with has an OPD installed then that tank needs to be operated vertically.
- - Or, as others have posted, you may need the valve removed and the valve and tank cleaned.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6-lb-opd.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	5.8 KB
ID:	32476   Click image for larger version

Name:	horizontaltankal.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	13.5 KB
ID:	32477  

__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 10:29   #4
Registered User
 
webejammin's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW, sailing the Columbia River, USA
Boat: Gemini 105MC 34 ft hull#753
Posts: 951
Images: 3
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Emergency valve????? Normal nautical propane tanks contain only a rotating valve and if they are comply with the new USA regulations, they have an OPD (Overfill Protection Device) valve. See below. These tanks are for vertical use only as the OPD is a simple "float valve" that closes off the valve when the liquid level in the propane tank rises.
- - Horizontally mounted propane tanks do not have OPD's unless they also have an additional outlet fitting. See below.
- - If the tank you are having problems with has an OPD installed then that tank needs to be operated vertically.
- - Or, as others have posted, you may need the valve removed and the valve and tank cleaned.

I have bought the horizontal mounted bottles before and totally agree with the above post. Most bottles are for standing up always and are more dangrous when layed down.
__________________
Wind in my hair and a nice catamaran
Phil & Elaine
webejammin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-01-2012, 11:20   #5
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Propane Pain

No reason to discard a tank unless its an exchange type. The welded aluminum tank shown above is kinda expensive and a propane refiller can change out the valve for you for about the price of the valve. If the tank is old enough to requre recertification the old valve is removed anyway.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2012, 20:46   #6
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Sorry, a late update......
I turned the horizontal tank back into a vertical position and tapped the valve body with a wooden mallet.
Something must have become "unstuck" because when I hooked it back up everything worked fine.
__________________
"Waste your money and you’re only out of money, but waste your time and you’ve lost a part of your life.” (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2012, 21:01   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,312
Images: 75
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
Sorry, a late update......
I turned the horizontal tank back into a vertical position and tapped the valve body with a wooden mallet.
Something must have become "unstuck" because when I hooked it back up everything worked fine.
bigger the job,bigger the hammer
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 10:22   #8
Registered User
 
webejammin's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW, sailing the Columbia River, USA
Boat: Gemini 105MC 34 ft hull#753
Posts: 951
Images: 3
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strait Shooter View Post
Sorry, a late update......
I turned the horizontal tank back into a vertical position and tapped the valve body with a wooden mallet.
Something must have become "unstuck" because when I hooked it back up everything worked fine.

There are tanks that are to be used only in the horizontal position only and vertical tanks are used only in vertical position they don't work well in the horizontal position and cause the valve to stick or freeze with condensation in the valve.
__________________
Wind in my hair and a nice catamaran
Phil & Elaine
webejammin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 10:50   #9
Registered User
 
Mark1977's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Halifax, N.S Canada
Boat: Tanzer 26, Walk22
Posts: 930
Re: Propane Pain

__________________
Just the guy that runs the boat.
Mark1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 19:10   #10
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by webejammin View Post
There are tanks that are to be used only in the horizontal position only and vertical tanks are used only in vertical position they don't work well in the horizontal position and cause the valve to stick or freeze with condensation in the valve.

Totally true. Tanks made for vertical need to stay vertical and horizontal need to stay horizontal. The auto valves and siphon tubes are dependant on position. BTW, no safety valve required for horizontal tanks - yet. It hasn't been designed.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 19:50   #11
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Totally true. Tanks made for vertical need to stay vertical and horizontal need to stay horizontal. The auto valves and siphon tubes are dependant on position. BTW, no safety valve required for horizontal tanks - yet. It hasn't been designed.
I think my horizontal tanks do have safety valves. I'm not currently on the boat or I could send a pic and get opinions. I may do that tomorrow.

Ya ya, horizontal can't be vertical blah blah blah etcetcetc

The tank wasn't in a vertical position except when it was last filled. I'm pretty sure that's when the offending digit got "stuck". If it wasn't a safety valve getting stuck, what was it. And what's the noise when the tanks empty that I hear? I thought it was part of a safety valve.

John
__________________
"Waste your money and you’re only out of money, but waste your time and you’ve lost a part of your life.” (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 19:58   #12
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Propane Pain

They don't make safety valves for horizontal tanks. If you think you might have one ask the propane refilling distributor what is in the end of your tank. Hopefully, he is an old guy with a 7-day beard stubble and a dirty shirt. He may know what he is looking at.
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2012, 20:11   #13
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Hopefully, he is an old guy with a 7-day beard stubble and a dirty shirt. He may know what he is looking at.
The last guy to pump my propane kept trying to hook up to the outflow and would get pissed when he couldn't get the propane to flow. I may not be a propane rocket scientist, but that was almost painful to watch.

So what I've been calling the safety valve sounds like the 10% valve.
What would a safety valve then be?

John
__________________
"Waste your money and you’re only out of money, but waste your time and you’ve lost a part of your life.” (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2012, 18:45   #14
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Propane Pain

Best thing is to get educated. Here are a few useful links. After reading and your own research, you should be able to aske the right questions. Anything else you get here is likely water-cooler talk.
I've read this and I am not sure my horizontal tanks are exempt or in/out of compliance.
Understanding Propane Bottle Valves - Troubleshooting LP Gas Cylinder Connections

for vertical standard exchange tanks Law requires new safety valves on propane tanks (05-13-2002)

Propane Systems by Don Casey

you can buy the OPD valve for a vertical tank and DIY but most porpane service stations will sell & insall the new valve for about the price of the valve since the old valve must be remove anyway for a pressure test.

Q&A including horizontal cylinders.
Propane Tank Regulations

Propane Tank Valves and Re-Certification
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2012, 04:50   #15
Registered User
 
Strait Shooter's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Straits of Juan De Fuca
Boat: Ingrid
Posts: 786
Talking Re: Propane Pain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
They don't make safety valves for horizontal valves
Would this be considered part of that "water cooler" talk?

My asking the question in this forum IS a part of my "getting educated". As is your obviously special ability to push buttons with Google.

I've never had an OPD "stick", as it were. I'm not sure when the last time you got propane here in the states was, but horizontal or not, where I live if you don't have an OPD on a tank, you get no propane.

I was asking an experienced (and obviously some not so) group of people for their input on a problem I was experiencing. I also asked mechanics in the heavy equipment world, structural engineers that work for me, boat refitters, the guy that lives on the boat next to mine, and I'd have asked my girlfriend if I thought there was a chance in hell she'd know what I was talking about.

The one guy I didn't ask was the old fart in a greasy shirt that half ass fills my tanks and has to be reminded every time that yes, horizontal tanks are legal to fill, and would you please fill it through the proper input you bonehead.

I woke up one night when the boat rocked in our slip and watched as a net of oranges hit the cabins sidewall. I realized that the OPD must work in basically the same way. A gentle tap with a wooden mallet freed it up the next morning.

Trial and error are fine mechanical learning tools, as are knowledge bases wherever you may find them.
__________________

__________________
"Waste your money and you’re only out of money, but waste your time and you’ve lost a part of your life.” (Michael Leboeuf)
Strait Shooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
propane

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Challenge: Thinking Outside the Medical Box | I'm Having Chest Pain ! capngeo Challenges 19 08-10-2011 11:09
Alternative Propane Storage unbusted67 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 27 28-09-2011 23:35
Location of Propane Solenoid Zatarra Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 11 07-08-2011 16:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.