Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-08-2016, 14:48   #16
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: mackay, queensland. australia
Boat: e.a jack (builder), g.l watson (designer), 6.2 mtr wll sailboat
Posts: 478
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

using epoxy flow coat at the moment it's 3parts resin to 1 part hardener. did have a layer of flow coat stay tacky last year on the main hatch slide it was the last small mix out of the tin / the catalyst may go off if old / I mixed a new batch using new catalyst and re-coated the slide straight over the still tacky flow coat it dried solid in 2 hours and hasn't been a problem / I sat the hatch slide in the sun to use the heat to help it cure // perhaps mix a small batch and over coat your stuff up in an easy to access area and wait and see if it cures o.k / if so over coat the lot / if you are using polyester flow coat try the same / take care not to breathe in the fumes for too long / epoxy goes over polyester o.k but you need to sand the lot first to key the next coat in / polyester sticks to epoxy quite well, it still pays to sand the properly cured epoxy before coating / I have cleaned up a failed hull repair on someones boat using petrol sanded it rough and repaired with 180 epoxy and q-cell mixed thick straight onto the polyester hull, shattered star crack / the tide came in and the yacht floated and didn't leak / but that was in an emergency with makeshift repair materials .
__________________

__________________
knockabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2016, 16:28   #17
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: galveston tx.
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,335
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoret View Post
I should clarify...It's the flow coat laid over the epoxy that won't dry. From comments above I suspect the problem is that amine blush wasn't properly removed from the epoxy. The amine blush has contaminated the flow coat preventing it drying/hardening.
The other area that was flowcoated has worked very well because it was not laid over fresh epoxy. The same mix ratios and procedures were used for both jobs. The catalyst used with flow coat is called MEKP and 1-2 % is recommended. I thoroughly 10 ml into 500ml of Flow coat (2 %).
It's interesting that the Flow coat won't dry due to Amine blush as Flowcoat is just Gelcoat with a wax added to it.
Thanks for all the input, sounds like it aint gonna dry. Looking like a messy clean up ahead.

So you used polyester over epoxy?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2016, 17:13   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Pedro CA
Boat: Sampson, seashell, 36'
Posts: 13
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Your not the first person to have this problem, the cause is probably the use of polyester laminating resin over any substrate. That resin is designed to be used in a mold or any airtight system such as a vacuum cure.

The simple cure for your problem now is to coat with epoxy, sand if necessary, then you can finish with an epoxy primer and paint.

Laminating resin is designed that way so that it does not need sanding from one layer to the next. The last layer will have to be a finishing resin, finishing resin has a wax or something similar mixed into the resin that rises to the surface during the cure, therefore restricting the air.

Lew on S/V Allusion
__________________
elbib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2016, 18:18   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hamilton, NZ
Boat: Bonito Aquarius 22
Posts: 25
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Yep , Flocote is a polyester resin with thixotropic ingredients and wax styrene. Tried to put it over West epoxy resin. Nothing that a scraper, old towels and a bucket full of acetone couldn't fix. Used mask, gloves etc as it was very confined, awkward space.
Thanks for all the input and advice.
Lesson learnt!!
__________________
amoret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 03:49   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: mackay, queensland. australia
Boat: e.a jack (builder), g.l watson (designer), 6.2 mtr wll sailboat
Posts: 478
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

yes polyester flow coat isn't as forgiving as epoxy flow coat
__________________
knockabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 04:24   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,557
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by amoret View Post
Yep , Flocote is a polyester resin with thixotropic ingredients and wax styrene. Tried to put it over West epoxy resin. Nothing that a scraper, old towels and a bucket full of acetone couldn't fix. Used mask, gloves etc as it was very confined, awkward space.
Thanks for all the input and advice.
Lesson learnt!!
Polyester resin is a totally different animal. You mentioned epoxy in your first post and never said you switched materials between the first and second coat.

That totally changes the rules.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 04:56   #22
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 4,916
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Polyester resin is a totally different animal. You mentioned epoxy in your first post and never said you switched materials between the first and second coat.

That totally changes the rules.
Yep, EXACTLY! That's a big, big error in ettiqute. What were you thinking?
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 12:39   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hamilton, NZ
Boat: Bonito Aquarius 22
Posts: 25
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

I had no idea you could get epoxy flocote and polyester flocote.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
amoret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 12:40   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hamilton, NZ
Boat: Bonito Aquarius 22
Posts: 25
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Oh and very sorry for any confusion.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
amoret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 17:36   #25
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 152
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I have had problems with paint curing over epoxy before also. Not sure why. In some cases "epoxy paint "with "epoxy paint" overcoat over it. I don't think those paints are actual epoxy but not sure though.
I wonder if you wiped the surface with vinegar if the tacky would go away? Vinegar is used for clean up of epoxy right?
I doubt it- vinegar works as a clean up solvent for uncured epoxy, but if you're going to try it, experiment on a very small area, in case it goes badly. As the OP has indicated that the flow coat is catalysed with MEKP (methyl ethyl ketone peroxide) the flow coat is a polyester/ vinylester product
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group
__________________
JOHNMARDALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 17:43   #26
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 152
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I have had problems with paint curing over epoxy before also. Not sure why. In some cases "epoxy paint "with "epoxy paint" overcoat over it. I don't think those paints are actual epoxy but not sure though.
I wonder if you wiped the surface with vinegar if the tacky would go away? Vinegar is used for clean up of epoxy right?
I doubt it- vinegar works as a clean up solvent for uncured epoxy, but if you're going to try it, experiment on a very small area, in case it goes badly. As the OP has indicated that the flow coat is catalysed with MEKP (methyl ethyl ketone peroxide) the flow coat is a polyester/ vinylester product
__________________
JOHNMARDALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 19:59   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Pedro CA
Boat: Sampson, seashell, 36'
Posts: 13
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Looking over the post I made, I mentioned that just coating your tacky polyester with epoxy is the way to cure the problem, I know because I've done it and know it works. If you're hesitant, just coat a small area and see the result after the epoxy kicks off. Clean up of the tacky resin is going to be a mess at best, and in a confined area, it may make you sick. Try it, you will thank me!
__________________
elbib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2016, 23:41   #28
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 4,916
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

I'm unclear about the flow coating comment regarding the two resin types. But with epoxy, flow coating can be & is done with most different "types" of epoxies. It's more in the application technique than anything else. At least as I've done it.

As the term "flow coat" is one which basically describes the same thing which happens when using a quality paint that's been properly thinned. The paint (or resin) simply flows over the surface, & self levels to a smooth, even surface, prior too hardening. So that when things do harden/cure, you have a nice glossy, even finish on things.
They're all resins of one type or another. Just optimized for different properties is all.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 07:38   #29
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 152
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

Quote:
Originally Posted by elbib View Post
Your not the first person to have this problem, the cause is probably the use of polyester laminating resin over any substrate. That resin is designed to be used in a mold or any airtight system such as a vacuum cure.

The simple cure for your problem now is to coat with epoxy, sand if necessary, then you can finish with an epoxy primer and paint.

Laminating resin is designed that way so that it does not need sanding from one layer to the next. The last layer will have to be a finishing resin, finishing resin has a wax or something similar mixed into the resin that rises to the surface during the cure, therefore restricting the air.

Lew on S/V Allusion
As this flow-coat material is described as containing wax, it is not a laminating resin, but a top coat/gel coat product. The wax migrates to the surface and seals it, allowing a non-tacky cure. Laminating resin is air-inhibited and will stay tacky until it is sealed. Adding another coating over a cured waxed product usually requires removal of the wax, with solvent and sanding.

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group
__________________
JOHNMARDALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2016, 13:57   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 10,621
Send a message via Skype™ to Jim Cate
Re: Problem with flowcoat not drying

FWIW: HEre in Oz, the term "Flowcoat" refers to a specific product, and it is a thin polyester based resin designed to be used as paint, usually over fiberglass structures also based on polyester chemistry.

So, ragging on the OP for being unclear is not justified IMO.

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Aquatic Paradise Qld for a while.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Polyester Flowcoat stick to Epoxy? Marqus Construction, Maintenance & Refit 20 05-04-2014 05:34
"Flowcoat" for spot repairs? Island_Moose Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 22-01-2014 18:48
Questions about Living Aboard: Drying Clothes and Hot Showers jm21 Liveaboard's Forum 9 25-09-2009 07:33
Drying Out ? redbreast Multihull Sailboats 17 03-06-2008 06:46
Flowcoat over vinylester Weyalan Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 23-08-2006 09:32


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.