postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by jimisbell

In 6 months, not enough growth occurs to reasonably change performance....if you go at 7knots and not try to plane the boat.

Sailor's, especially racers, know differently.

In Lake Ontario, we use a super slick anti-fouling paint (Interlux VC17) and even with very little slime by the end of our 6 month freshwater season, I can tell the difference. (I usually wipe it down in the water mid season, in the 1000 Islands.)

I advise boaters that I perform a bottom job for, to be very careful when they launch the boat and pull into their slip the first time afterward.

Compared to the old bottom, when they shift to neutral it will feel like the boat is speeding up. ;-)

I started doing this after several customers pounded into the pier at the end of their finger.

A smooth, clean bottom makes a world of difference.

Do a speed check now, rpm vs velocity in flat, windless, no wave or current conditions. Get a new (good) bottom job, and repeat.

Maybe instead of 7 knots, you can do 8 for the same fuel.

On a 100 mile run, that will be 12.5 hours instead of 14.3.

That could mean the difference between landing, having a swim, enjoying a cocktail, and finishing dinner before the old you would be anchoring in the mosquitos after sunset.

I have a really great customer with a Rosborough 245 on a trailer.

Cutest little trawler ever.

He always left the gelcoat bare and power and acid washed every fall.

He told me he was getting tired of it.

I gave him an estimate for a VC-17 bottom.

On completion, after the first season, he thanked me profusely and advised he was kicking himself he hadn't talked to me earlier.

Instead of 2 days of power washing and scrubbing with pretty nasty stuff, it takes him a half hour to power wash the bottom.

He advised that at max RPM he would make 28 knots before and he now gets 35.

Even for a cruiser, the ability to go faster when you want or need to, can be a very important thing.

If you don't want anti-fouling and want to hire divers every 6 months (which would be absolutely untenable in most waters), that is your business.

But don't be fooled that it doesn't make a significant difference in boat performance.

It does.

Clean and smooth.

There's a reason (competitive) racers are meticulous about their bottoms.

And you can tell the cruisers who do.

They are the ones that arrive at the new anchorage earlier and get their pick of the premium spots.

The ones with the crappy bottoms arrive later and are anchored out on foul ground.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So you believe I should replace my old raggedy dodger and frame ($2,200 for new one with SS Frame and handles. Add a fridge, replace the Thetford Head (glorified porta potty), replace the windows/ports, the rigging, and paint the deck on a boat worth maybe $4000 - $5,000 dollars or I'm not maintaining it properly right?

If your boat has a raggedy dodger, malfunctioning head, crazed or opaque ports, substandard rigging, and a deck that needs painting, it is not in the "excellent condition" you claimed it was.

It is in need of maintenance. Sounds more like "fair" condition.

Just because it was in poor or very poor condition to begin with, doesn't miraculously turn "fair condition" now into "excellent condition".

I am happy you have improved the condition of your vessel (if you really have).

But just because you paid little for it, and it is still worth little, doesn't change the maintenance required.

In fact, it likely increases it.

If your rigging is unsafe, it needs to be fixed.

If you can't see through your ports, they need to be fixed.

If your dodger doesn't keep the melanoma off your noggin, it needs to be fixed.

If you've had to use a bucket because the head is broke, it needs to be fixed.

If you are at risk of sliding off the foredeck at sea, it needs the anti-skid renewed.

Also, I'm looking at a Pearson 10M right now that I might buy. I'm still thinking it over as I am the various "improvements" I'm considering doing to the Bristol.

News Flash!

Almost every boater is looking at or thinking about another boat.

Should everyone stop all maintenance, until they stop thinking about other boats. For most boaters, they'll be pushing up daisies before that ever happens. Or if they do stop all maintenance they may be meeting Davy Jones.

And Btw, my boat is one of the most used at my marina. There are quite a few that are very well maintained in other slips with their lines all coiled up just right, etc. The only problem is they rarely move!

All the more reason your boat should be very well maintained.

If anything is gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there. ;-)

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

If your rigging is unsafe, it needs to be fixed.

If you can't see through your ports, they need to be fixed.

If your dodger doesn't keep the melanoma off your noggin, it needs to be fixed.

If you've had to use a bucket because the head is broke, it needs to be fixed.

If you are at risk of sliding off the foredeck at sea, it needs the anti-skid renewed.

I'm glad you've stopped yaking about 5 years this and 10 years that and are focusing more on fixing what needs to be fixed. That is a reasonable approach to maintenance on a tired boat for someone with a limited budget and it seems like thomm225 has it about right.

BTW, I think you missed his point,

my boat is one of the most used at my marina. There are quite a few that are very well maintained in other slips with their lines all coiled up just right, etc. The only problem is they rarely move!

What he means is that having a perfect doesn't mean you enjoy it more.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Quit the pissing contest, nothing is gained, only ill will.

What if others are enjoying the thread?

Shouldn't they be permitted to see what we have to say?

I feel that honest, healthy, debate is what makes CF so wonderful.

It causes one to assess and re-assess their convictions.

For those who don't have any yet, they run the risk of actually learning something.

If everyone just stopped posting the instant there was controversy, some of the best threads on CF would never happen.

I have discovered all kinds of excellent info after controversy has broken out, posters stand their ground, and start providing evidence to support their convictions.

You know, a simple solution, if you aren't enjoying this or any thread, is to simply stop reading it. Attempting to dictate what others post is likely to prove fruitless.

PS, Thomm225, I admire how you stand behind your convictions (regardless how incorrect they may be) and can take it just as hard as you dish it out (or at least try to). ;-) Rare indeed.

Now if I could only get you to see this maintenance issue my way... ;-)

[ramblinrod]

[QUOTE=wingssail;2698001]

I'm glad you've stopped yaking about 5 years this and 10 years that and are focusing more on fixing what needs to be fixed.

Ummm, basic preventative maintenance principles dictate that one performs actions BEFORE something needs to be fixed.

That is a reasonable approach to maintenance on a tired boat for someone with a limited budget and it seems like thomm225 has it about right.

Proper maintenance has little to do with budget other than one with less resources may need to find lower cost solutions.

You have to change your oil at regular intervals, regardless of your budget, or you could hurt the boat or yourself. The same holds true for water pump impellers, inspections, etc.


What do you do if your are performing an inspection of your standing rigging and find a fault? Leave it and risk the mast falling down.

No you fix it (or at least you should).

Someone who has more money than time, may hire a rigger. Someone who has more time than money, may figure out how to properly DIY. But the point is, it has to be done, and whether DIY or pro, it has to be done properly. Wrapping a wad of bubblegum on a forestay with 3 broken strands doesn't cut it.

BTW, I think you missed his point,

What he means is that having a perfect doesn't mean you enjoy it more.

I have never suggested every boat has to be perfect.

They should all be sound and well found.

Through all of my crawling around in and fixing boats, I know that no boat is perfect.

I'm talking about proper maintenance.

If one can't afford to perform proper maintenance on their boat, then maybe they should retire from boating, or get something easier to maintain.

So it all comes down to, "What is proper maintenance?"

Well, every engine manufacturer has a table in the back of the operators manual that tells the owner what the designer and builder believes is proper.

That's a pretty good place to start.

They don't suggest one waits for the seawater pump impeller to disintegrate before changing it.

Nor to wait for the seawater coolant to freeze in the block before winterizing.

Nor to neglect installing a fuel/water separator before the injector pump seizes up.

(I've had to deal with all 3 of these so far this week.)

Fortunately, most of my customers believe in preventative maintenance, so most weeks aren't this bad.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

If your rigging is unsafe, it needs to be fixed.

If you can't see through your ports, they need to be fixed.

If your dodger doesn't keep the melanoma off your noggin, it needs to be fixed.

If you've had to use a bucket because the head is broke, it needs to be fixed.

If you are at risk of sliding off the foredeck at sea, it needs the anti-skid renewed.

News Flash!

Almost every boater is looking at or thinking about another boat.

My rigging is probably fine, but since I didn't get to speak with the PO I don't know how long it's been on the boat. There are no broken threads/wires on the cables. The prebend is the same as when I first tuned the rig so nothing has changed there

A Bristol 27 though is way overbuilt and that includes the rigging. It has 8 stays (all connected to hard points) and the sail area is only just a bit above 300'. About the same as my last beach cat

Ports are just scratched. They'll do until I'm ready to replace them.

The dodger is getting old and has a couple small tears which I have covered with Gorilla Tape. I've already spoken to the Marine Canvas folks which is where I got the $2,200 estimate for a dodger with SS frame and handles. The dodger still does it's job but the boat would look better with a new dodger and matching sail cover

The head is fine. I just hate to remove it each time it needs to be emptied

The decks are okay and I haven't had slipping problems, but I do have some none skid paint to try on them at some point

I'm considering the Pearson 10M because the Bristol simply will not point with it's short waterline and full keel of 4'. The Pearson has a 29' plus waterline and near 6' fin keel. It should be a rocket ship in 18 knots as compared to the Bristol...…...but then again my exwife will need another car soon so we'll have to see

I probably do need new dock lines though as I'm still using the PO's....

[jimisbell]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Sailor's, especially racers, know differently.

I.

In spite of your lengthy explanation. YOU ARE WRONG.


I am a sailor, 50 years of sailing and i am a RACER with 20 years of racing.



I found that a slightly slime bottom was the fastest and I have1st place trophies to prove it.


I always cleaned the bottom a week before a race to let it get some growth before the race.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by jimisbell

I found that a slightly slime bottom was the fastest and I have1st place trophies to prove it.

Bwahahahaha! You gotta be kidding me!

[Fiveslide]

Hey, thomm, that Pearson is down to $7,000 asking now. Better put on your party dress and make an offer before someone like me beats you to it!

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Bwahahahaha! You gotta be kidding me!

I love this place.

It can be so entertaining.

I suppose it is possible that if one has a rough bottom, that some slime could smooth the rough edges and make it a bit faster. Meanwhile boat for boat, the ones equally well sailed with a smooth, clean bottom, will fly by, especially in light airs.

[Fiveslide]

Agreed. I've got a coat of slime on a power boat right now. No barnacles or really rough growth, just the slime... It feels like I'm riding around with a brake on.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by jimisbell

In spite of your lengthy explanation. YOU ARE WRONG.


I am a sailor, 50 years of sailing and i am a RACER with 20 years of racing.



I found that a slightly slime bottom was the fastest and I have1st place trophies to prove it.


I always cleaned the bottom a week before a race to let it get some growth before the race.

If that were generally true then all the best racers would not be dry sailing their boats. They would not wet sand and polish their baltoplate till it was like glass.

I suppose if you’re just rolling on paint that a touch of slime would perhaps smooth it out. How many days before that “sweet spot” is gone? Not many I’ll bet.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

Hey, thomm, that Pearson is down to $7,000 asking now. Better put on your party dress and make an , offer before someone like me beats you to it!

Yeah, I sent him an email last night.

I sailed over today to fish, hangout, hike etc but the fish ain't biting. it's so slow (and hot) I had to buy some internet time. (company only pays for flip phone)

Maybe I'll sail over and look again in the am or next weekend

Don't tell Rod but it has an Atomic 4 gasoline engine and there are cracks around several stanchions. But the sails are crispy. That's hard for a racer to resist. Plus it has a couple spinnakers

It's still a crap shoot though with that engine. Raw water cooled and I simply cannot put an outboard on a 12,400 lb disp 33' boat

Plus it needs a proper head holding tank (it has a Vetus Bag now that looks quite new) It also needs an autopilot, anchor, depth finder, and deck work.

The mast has prebend so I know someone raced it

I do like the engine though being an older guy. It actually has a distributor cap and plug wires!! Looks like a couple of the engines I had in the past. Plus my cousin who farms 2,000 acres still has a Ford 8N and 800 like my Dad had. Similar engines

He has rather gigantic John Deeres now though that do the work. We drove 6 cylinder diesel dual back wheeled Olivers though when I worked there

Geez, some guy just came in on a $100,000 or so catamaran. I hope he knows how to anchor. I don't want him damaging my good old boat just when I'm getting it in good shape! Looks like he has decided to anchor within 5-6 boat lengths of me …..and there are no other boats here. Tide is turning now though ……..which is good

[skenn_ie]

Smooth paint, ever heard of a Racing Finish ? In wooden boat times, it meant paint, sand, paint, sand, paint carefully, rub with very fine grit, then, often, wax. I do wonder though, would a "shark skin" finish work better ? I know that laminar flow is sometimes used on aircraft, plus,nature has done a lot of testing.

[Tayana42]

“It is so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it.”
Sam Levinson