postponing antifouling paint job. OK or not OK?

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by thomm225

My 5 HP outboard weighs 58 lbs and the boat is actually sitting higher in the water without the 352 lb 10 HP diesel and all the associated crap that went with it.

You can see this in the pictures I posted earlier

Also the diesel worked at first but leaked and smelled so I got to see the performance of the boat with the diesel. It was no better than with the outboard

Also my outboard has an onboard fuel tank so I don't usually have to bother with fuel lines etc unless I'm motoring 10-20 miles

5 HP is suitable for a 12 foot aluminium fishing boat or a 20 ft trailerable sailboat (around 3000 lbs). Too light for a Bristol 27. FMV reduces to $1500 because the outboard should be upgrade to 10 HP.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

5 HP is suitable for a 12 foot aluminium fishing boat or a 20 ft trailerable sailboat (around 3000 lbs). Too light for a Bristol 27. FMV reduces to $1500 because the outboard should be upgrade to 10 HP.

A 10 HP Outboard to me is too heavy to put on the stern. Plus my 5 HP fits on the dingy engine mount on the stern railing. I mount it there backwards at times to change the impeller. If I were to sail long distance offshore, I might put it on the stern mount to store it.

Also, the 5 hp has an onboard fuel tank so I don't have any hoses etc connected to the engine sometimes for the whole sailing trip and only used the outboard when docking is involved

Most times my 5 hp engine can push the boat at 4.5 to 5 knots or more with the tide. Usually at least the mainsail is up if I'm motoring 20 miles or more to get back home on a Sunday. I've made that crossing at least 10 times in the past 6 years under 5 hp outboard power.

Sometimes I use the motor for positioning only then tack and sail shutting the engine down as things improve

It's all about the type sailing you're doing also. Sailing to me isn't about convenience. It's not about having all the comforts of home on a boat. It would be nice not to have an engine at all, but I'm usually on a schedule and I've had to use it in the past to keep me off the bridge

The tide was threatening to push me into it. It spans the entire bay and I was too close heading to a destination once. It was either that or anchor for a while

It was really weird at first having an engine since I had sailed 15 years without one especially with the old loud, leaky diesel

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You see, this is the problem with newbies like you

I believe he’s referring to the risk of fire.

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You see, this is the problem with newbies like you

All my sailboats except this one didn't have an engine at all. They were beach cats

Sailing a 100 mile race without an engine teaches you things. On my Bristol, I have everything.....food, shelter, Comms, gps etc. I can hang out for many days if need be

It's like a luxury motel compared to a beach cat. What if a rod breaks? You wait for the wind and sail!

As for offshore sailing of a beach-cat, ou are likely to be in relatively close proxiity to other boats,and it is also likely that people will be aware if you don't turn up at the finish within a few hours of others,and be prepared to search for you. That isn't going to be the case for long-distance cruising.
What if a rod breaks ? I meant "in a motor boat" ! As for newbie, that, I am not. I could easily have been conceived at sea. Home was a barge, until I left home. My dad was a boatbuilder, Shipwright, Naval Architect and Marine Surveyor. Both my parents were keen sailers. My earliest memory of sailing single-handed was in 1962 ! At this point, I have spent half my life living afloat, or in my current home, mostly afloat in a tidal harbour.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

When planning an ocean voyage under sail, think of what you would do if your mast broke. If voyaging under power, what if the engine threw a rod.

You'd have to rig something and sail as best you could possibly to an alternate destination. There are lots of examples of this you can read about.

Robin Lee Graham and Tami Ashcraft come to mind

https://www.google.com/search?q=tami...345j_wSwVSetM:

Another example:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=25...fosZR8YSpIBFM:

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

As for offshore sailing of a beach-cat, ou are likely to be in relatively close proxiity to other boats,and it is also likely that people will be aware if you don't turn up at the finish within a few hours of others,and be prepared to search for you. That isn't going to be the case for long-distance cruising.
What if a rod breaks ? I meant "in a motor boat" ! As for newbie, that, I am not. I could easily have been conceived at sea. Home was a barge, until I left home. My dad was a boatbuilder, Shipwright, Naval Architect and Marine Surveyor. Both my parents were keen sailers. My earliest memory of sailing single-handed was in 1962 ! At this point, I have spent half my life living afloat, or in my current home, mostly afloat in a tidal harbour.

The point is on a monohull you have shelter.

You have tools.

Food.

A radio.

Water.

You rig something but on a sailboat with a 5 hp engine you most probably wouldn't be motoring in the first place if sailing long distance.

Lots of times now I only use the outboard when coming and going from the dock on my weekend or vacation sails

As far as boating/sailing experience, I'm self taught. I knew the three R's when I started and how to make a lawnmower engine run. My first 8 or so boats were beat up power boats from 14'-17' used for fishing, skiing, clamming, etc.

Back then (early 70's) we had no instruments on our boats, no cell phones, no radio and sometimes not enough life preservers but we always had plenty of bait and beer! This on both the Bay Side and the Sea Side...... sometimes on the same day

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The point is on a monohull you have shelter.

You have tools.

Food.

A radio.

Water.

You may or may not. Ditto, a multihull. OK, on a 420, you could use the/a sail over the cockpit for shelter, whereas that isn't possible on a small cat. Also, a monohull is highly unlikely to remain inverted, though it has happened when a keel falls off, whereas, THE most stable vessel is an inverted multihull !

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You'd have to rig something and sail as best you could possibly to an alternate destination. There are lots of examples of this you can read about.

There are also many examples of people who weren't able to jury-rig anything effective. In one, they motored something like 800 miles to Rapa Nui, then got a new mast flown out. From that perspective, the bigger the boat, the more difficult it will be to jury-rig an effective sail.
Thought: carry a big kite or para-wing for emergencies ?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

THE most stable vessel is an inverted multihull !

Yeah, I broke my carbon fiber mast once in a 25 plus knot wind gust with the spinnaker up the mainsheet was to loose for the conditions. The mainsheet, sail etc serve as the backstay on the Nacra 17 I was sailing).

Anyway, the boat turned turtle and I just relaxed for a while on the tramp between the hulls.......that is after I untangled myself from all the rigging, sheets, and sails while underwater

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by thomm225

A 10 HP Outboard to me is too heavy to put on the stern. Plus my 5 HP fits on the dingy engine mount on the stern railing. I mount it there backwards at times to change the impeller. If I were to sail long distance offshore, I might put it on the stern mount to store it.

Also, the 5 hp has an onboard fuel tank so I don't have any hoses etc connected to the engine sometimes for the whole sailing trip and only used the outboard when docking is involved

Most times my 5 hp engine can push the boat at 4.5 to 5 knots or more with the tide. Usually at least the mainsail is up if I'm motoring 20 miles or more to get back home on a Sunday. I've made that crossing at least 10 times in the past 6 years under 5 hp outboard power.

Sometimes I use the motor for positioning only then tack and sail shutting the engine down as things improve

It's all about the type sailing you're doing also. Sailing to me isn't about convenience. It's not about having all the comforts of home on a boat. It would be nice not to have an engine at all, but I'm usually on a schedule and I've had to use it in the past to keep me off the bridge

The tide was threatening to push me into it. It spans the entire bay and I was too close heading to a destination once. It was either that or anchor for a while

It was really weird at first having an engine since I had sailed 15 years without one especially with the old loud, leaky diesel

Bristol 27 Propulsion System Comparison

10 HP Diesel

Pros

1. Durable. 5-10K hours before needing overhaul.

2. Reliable. All it needs is for the owner to prevent fuel contamination, perform a little maintenance, and it will start and run like a top for years.

3. Economical. Excellent fuel economy with low maintenance costs.

4. Simple. Very few parts to break down.

5. Speed. Easily hit hull speed with power to spare to fight headwinds and waves.

6. Effective. Inboard propeller stays in the water under all operating conditions.

7. Alternator. 25 Amps to charge batteries.

8. Easy. Electric start with all control within easy reach of helmsperson.

9. Cost. High fair market value contribution.

10. Balance. Puts weight on centreline, near midship, low.

11. Security. Hard to remove.

12. Safety. Non-volatile fuel.

Cons

1. Serviceability. Must be done on-board, often poor access.

2. Initial Purchase Price. High

5 HP Outboard Engine

Pros:

1. Serviceability. Easy to remove for service.

2. Initial Purchase Price. Low


3. Maneuverability. (If the motor can be turned without chopping up the rudder.)

Cons:

1. Poor Durability. 1.5K hours before needing overhaul.

2. Not Reliable. Plagued with fuel and ignition problems.

3. Not Economical. Same fuel burn for less power produced.

4. Not Simple. Complex carburation and ignition systems.

5. Slow Speed. Can't hit hull speed even on the calmest of days. Stopped dead in its tracks with high wind and waves.

6. Ineffective. Propeller is out of the water and engine redlines in any kind of waves.

7. No Alternator. None, or possibly a little magneto that is unreliable and has no usable output.

8. Not Easy. Hanging out over the back of the vessel to start, change gears, raise or lower the mount, and refuel integral tank in sloppy conditions.

9. High Cost. Absolutely destroys any FMV the vessel may otherwise (that should be equipped with an inboard diesel).

10. Poor Balance. Removes weight where it was intended to be for the boat to sail on her proper lines. Puts weight way aft causing hobby horsing.

11. No Security. Gone in 6 seconds.

12. Unsafe. Potentially explosive fuel. See 8.

PS, I have a fair bit of experience with outboard and inboard powered vessels, both personally (3 cruising sailboats, 20, 26, and 32 feet) and professionally on all kinds of craft from jet skis to large sail and motor yachts.


Outboards have their place, just not on a cruising sailboat with relatively heavy displacement hull. For this purpose, an inboard diesel is vastly superior.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Bristol 27 Propulsion System Comparison

10 HP Diesel

Pros

1. Durable. 5-10K hours before needing overhaul.

2. Reliable. All it needs is for the owner to prevent fuel contamination, perform a little maintenance, and it will start and run like a top for years.

3. Economical. Excellent fuel economy with low maintenance costs.

4. Simple. Very few parts to break down.

5. Speed. Easily hit hull speed with power to spare to fight headwinds and waves.

6. Effective. Inboard propeller stays in the water under all operating conditions.

7. Alternator. 25 Amps to charge batteries.

8. Easy. Electric start with all control within easy reach of helmsperson.

9. Cost. High fair market value contribution.

10. Balance. Puts weight on centreline, near midship, low.

11. Security. Hard to remove.

12. Safety. Non-volatile fuel.

Cons

1. Serviceability. Must be done on-board, often poor access.

2. Initial Purchase Price. High

5 HP Outboard Engine

Pros:

1. Serviceability. Easy to remove for service.

2. Initial Purchase Price. Low


3. Maneuverability. (If the motor can be turned without chopping up the rudder.)

Cons:

1. Poor Durability. 1.5K hours before needing overhaul.

2. Not Reliable. Plagued with fuel and ignition problems.

3. Not Economical. Same fuel burn for less power produced.

4. Not Simple. Complex carburation and ignition systems.

5. Slow Speed. Can't hit hull speed even on the calmest of days. Stopped dead in its tracks with high wind and waves.

6. Ineffective. Propeller is out of the water and engine redlines in any kind of waves.

7. No Alternator. None, or possibly a little magneto that is unreliable and has no usable output.

8. Not Easy. Hanging out over the back of the vessel to start, change gears, raise or lower the mount, and refuel integral tank in sloppy conditions.

9. High Cost. Absolutely destroys any FMV the vessel may otherwise (that should be equipped with an inboard diesel).

10. Poor Balance. Removes weight where it was intended to be for the boat to sail on her proper lines. Puts weight way aft causing hobby horsing.

11. No Security. Gone in 6 seconds.

12. Unsafe. Potentially explosive fuel. See 8.

PS, I have a fair bit of experience with outboard and inboard powered vessels, both personally (3 cruising sailboats, 20, 26, and 32 feet) and professionally on all kinds of craft from jet skis to large sail and motor yachts.


Outboards have their place, just not on a cruising sailboat with relatively heavy displacement hull. For this purpose, an inboard diesel is vastly superior.

First, you need to understand the situation. I bought this boat to see if I would even like and could adjust to slow boat sailing after racing beach cats for 15 years

My last two beach cats were bought new and quite high tech. (both Nacras)

Also, after the old diesel failed on the boat that I paid $2,000 for during the first month of ownership, I simply wasn't ready to pay more for an engine than I had paid for the entire boat.

Plus, I'd never sailed on a boat with an engine before that I owned

The diesel was old, leaky, loud, and smelly. The fuel tank was a rusty metal thing. Fuel line was leaky copper tubing

I got rid of all that crap when the diesel failed. Plus the prop, shaft, motor mounts then cleaned the entire area and bilge. All told, it removed at least 375 lbs from the boat. The diesel being 352 lbs by itself

Outboards can last a very long time

They are very reliable, easy to start, and light weight. mine ways 58lbs

I've never had trouble with mine except when I tried to get 3 years out of an impeller. It was bought new in 2011.

I have solar, and don't need an alternator with my minimal electronics and electrical. GPS, Depth, VHF, AC Inverter, Lights, Autopilot, Fan, etc. I have a Victron 75/15 MPPT Controller. The solar charges two deep cycle 12 volt batteries in parallel.

Outboards are safe and do not leak fuel into the boat. I carry about 3 gallons of gas onboard usually. About the same a diesel cruising boat carries for it's dinghy outboard.

In calm water my 5 hp pushes the boat at around 5 knots. Offshore I have the main up when motoring

With my 25" shaft, the motor rarely comes out of the water. The engine has an onboard tank. I don't have control lines etc going back to the engine. it's pull start so no need for a starting battery

My boat weighs 6600 lbs. Ballast is 2600. My 58 lb outboard doesn't affect the balance

If I do start cruising more than 100 miles away from my slip, I may add two plastic 2.5 gallon jugs of fuel for some ICW motoring. (but I wouldn't motor that far in the ICW. I would mix it with offshore sailing) I have a 3 gallon external tank for longer distance motoring

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

5 HP Outboard Engine *****4 Stroke***** 25" Extra Long Shaft

Pros:

1. Serviceability. Easy to remove for service.

2. Initial Purchase Price. Low

3. Maneuverability.

Cons:


4. Not Simple. Complex carburation and ignition systems.

8. Not Easy. Hanging out over the back of the vessel to start, change gears, raise or lower the mount,

and refuel integral tank in sloppy conditions.

As far as number 4, I've changed the fuel filter and spark plug once in 7 years. Oil 3 or 4 times, and the impeller about the same. I've also flushed the engine 3 or 4 times in 7 years.

Number 8 is important because sailing shouldn't be easy. (it's already easy enough on a monohull) Leaning out, over etc is good for people especially older people. I actually have to get on top of the aft lazarette when I raise and tie off the engine...….sometimes when the boat is heeled 20 degrees plus while trying not to put weight on my solar panel which covers most of it

As for as refueling the integral tank, you usually do that at the marina or in the creek, otherwise you attached the fuel line, close off the vent on the integral tank cap, and switch to your external tank.

Mine is a 3 gallon tank and I usually have a couple gallons in it. It takes just over a gallon to motor for 4 hours or so which is usually how long it takes for me to motorsail the 20 miles home if there is no wind

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Number 8 is important because sailing shouldn't be easy. (it's already easy enough on a monohull) Leaning out, over etc is good for people especially older people. I actually have to get on top of the aft lazarette when I raise and tie off the engine...….sometimes when the boat is heeled 20 degrees plus while trying not to put weight on my solar panel which covers most of it

Recap

I was trying to help the OP with some advice about cruising sailboat maintenance, that you directly contradicted.


After numerous posts I learn your experience is limited to beach cats and a derelict Bristol 27.

I am not disrespecting your extensive beach cat experience (sounds like you had a blast), just that although sailing related, is barely relevant to the current subject.

You have espoused to be an expert sailboat inspector, having purchased numerous vessels, challenging the need for a certified marine surveyor, and apparently the one small cruising sailboat you have purchased that could have some value if well maintained, fell apart and needed expensive repairs you could not afford or justify within 30 days.

I am not disrespecting your experience with your Bristol 27, but I must say that these facts really challenge the credibility of your posts.

I hope you continue to enjoy the Bristol 27, take good care of her, remain safe, respect the marine environment, sport of boating, and safety of others.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Recap

I was trying to help the OP with some advice about cruising sailboat maintenance, that you directly contradicted.


After numerous posts I learn your experience is limited to beach cats and a derelict Bristol 27.

I am not disrespecting your extensive beach cat experience (sounds like you had a blast), just that although sailing related, is barely relevant to the current subject.

You have espoused to be an expert sailboat inspector, having purchased numerous vessels, challenging the need for a certified marine surveyor, and apparently the one small cruising sailboat you have purchased that could have some value if well maintained, fell apart and needed expensive repairs you could not afford or justify within 30 days.

I am not disrespecting your experience with your Bristol 27, but I must say that these facts really challenge the credibility of your posts.

I hope you continue to enjoy the Bristol 27, take good care of her, remain safe, respect the marine environment, sport of boating, and safety of others.

Totally wrong again.

Waiting a few months for a bottom job is totally fine.

Never said I was an expert sailboat inspector.

I've had maybe 12 boats at least 5 being sailboats. I know a decent boat when I see one. I have 45 plus years on the water: Chesapeake Bay, Atlantic Ocean, Atlantic and Gulf Coast ICW, Gulf of Mexico, Tennessee River, and Mississippi River

I bought the old Bristol for an education on monohulls and got one.

The Bristol 27 didn't fall apart. The old engine failed and I was prepared for that having followed the Atom Voyages Website and just knowing motors as I do. I got the boat for $2,000 because the owner figured the engine would fail and said so

I could easily have afforded a new engine for the boat but would never put a new or close to new diesel into a boat that old that I probably wouldn't own that long. Also, I still hadn't figured out if I liked slow boat sailing

I'm totally unsure why folks think that if you don't buy an expensive boat or waste money having so called qualified people maintain your boat or survey it for you that you cannot afford to

Also, remember when racing beach cats you get lots of sailing experience fast especially if you are doing it in Florida close to 10 months per year for 10 years against quality competition! Combine that with my boating experience in the Bay and Atlantic Ocean since I was in my teens makes for a pretty experience sailor/boater

And finally, I wanted an old full keel boat having read The Dove several times when I was in my 30's and his second book when he moved to Montana. (I even have the National Geographic Magazines that covered his circumnavigation) I also learned lots from the old full keel cruiser crowd in Florida at our dock in the 1990's. I didn't want a new boat. I wanted to learn monohulls on an old one

I have decided to keep the Bristol for a while though. It's such a tough old boat and has kept me out of trouble when I got caught out in strong winds or anchored in bad spots. I just have to figure out if I will replace the old dodger when it finally goes? Cost $2,200 for dodger and SS Frame. Do I install a fridge? Buy a new gen anchor? Replace the Thetford Plastic Head? Replace the ports windows? Paint the deck? Replace the rigging?

Speaking of antifouling, I may do that this year since it's been 3 years. I spoke to the yard folks yesterday about a spot

[thomm225]

Btw, last time I the boat in the yard to do the bottom, the topside hull paint was peeled off so bad I had to go ahead and sand it down to gelcoat and repaint it.

I paid $88.00 for the paint

It sure made my Good Ole Derelict Boat look a lot better!

There are a couple pictures below that show where I started the sanding process. The whole topside was that biege gelcoat when I finished sanding, and it was a decent workout as well