Cruisers Forum

Join CruisersForum Today

Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-01-2009, 13:01   #46
Senior Cruiser
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,949

I'm a little concerned that you are covering up some serious problems with cosmetic fixes. I think your yard may be leading you astray. First of all I don't think it's normal to have water on the inside of your rudder. Secondly how can you be sure that the foam has stopped shrinking/deteriorating without opening up.

How old is the boat and has the rudder shaft ever been checked to ensure there are no stress cracks or crevice corrosion. Spade rudders like yours can and do fail at the shaft/rudder interface from crevice corrosion.

I really don't have much personal experience with rudders except for helping a friend check the inside of his rudder and then reglassing with epoxy and cloth over the outside. But I do read regularly of rudder shafts failing at the interface to the rudder itself. There is at least one thread on the forum about just such an experience.

The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2009, 06:02   #47
Registered User
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,545
Images: 25
The End of the Story...

I've already posted this on the SSCA site but for the sake of those that are not SSCA Members and may have an interest in the outcome, we finally collected HyLyte from Snead Island Boat Works on Saturday morning and had a nice, albeit short, trip back to our Club with a much more easily handled yacht thanks to a proper rudder and smooth bottom.

The portion of our bill concerning the rudder repairs included $701.50 for labor and about $350.00 for materials--somewhat less than I had expected but still not inexpensive. (I suspect that SIBW did give me something of a break on the repair as the yard is not inexpensive but they are not likely to admit to that least they have to extend the courtesy to others.)

As to collecting anything from Foss Foam I am told that the head of SIBW spoke with Foss at some length but was rebuffed. Foss's warranty is for 12 months which expired in May of '03. I discussed the matter with another member of our Club, a legal beagle that specializes in such affairs, and was advised that Florida is a particularly difficult venue for recovery. Firstly, Florida's consumer protection laws specifically exclude yachts. Secondly, if I were to prevail in an action, I could only collect the actual amount paid to the vendor for his/her/its services as consequential damages--i.e. the cost of work performed by SIBW and shipping charges--are specifically excluded from recovery. Thirdly, I would have to prove that the collapse of the foam was due to a manufacturing defect that was "known to; or reasonably knowable by" the vendor and undisclosed in the event and a propensity of the foam to shrink under certain conditions, which is warned against by the vendor, is not necessarily a manufacturing defect but simply a property of the material (like the shrinkage of new blue-jeans).

In light of the foregoing it seems we're stuck serving as a costly object lesson as to Foss Foam for others.

FWIW I did look into the cost of a replacement rudder built around our own rudder post and armature by Phils Foils, as suggested in another thread, and it seems that vendor has a similar disclaimer regarding the foam coring. However, another friend of ours does have one of their rudders of similar age to ours with no problems thus far.

And that's the end of the story...

s/v HyLyte

"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2009, 09:23   #48
Senior Cruiser
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,626
Images: 2
I believe Phil's Foils uses Corecell, which should not absorb water or deform, in their foam laminates. It would be interesting to know what Foss Foam uses.

mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2009, 21:04   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the golden state
Boat: pilot cutter
Posts: 289
For $200-$300 you could have purchased enough white oak from a hardwoods supplier to have a decent carpenter completely fashion you an entirely new rudder in under 8 hrs (total) man-hours using the original as a pattern (about $300 labor). Then it would have cost you another $300 or so in materials and $300 in labor to have your new oak rudder glassed over if that is your preferred method of finishing. All told, a brand spanking new fiberglass-covered white oak rudder for about $1500 or so.

That foam and bondo job is about as 'correct' a repair as an automobile body shop filling a dent with foam and bondo, painting over the mess, and calling it 'fixed'. Why do people settle for such repairs on boats, when they would sue the pants off a body shop for similar shoddy work on their automobile?

I should open a boatworks shop, as there seems to be some money to be made.
Not Sure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2009, 10:41   #50
Registered User
FloridaWriter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maitland, FL
Boat: Bristol 29
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by bene505 View Post
Is there some type of primer or zinc coating that can be applied to S/S to lenghten it's life in rudders?

Stainless steel does just fine in oxygen depleted environments. It is when you add sea water to the environment that some stainless steels suffer and crevice corrosion develops. If the interior of the rudder is dry, there won't be an issue with using stainless steel assuming (of course) that the welds were done correctly.

"The lookout that first sights the cat shall have ten guineas and remission of sins, short of mutiny, sodomy, or damaging the paintwork." - Jack Aubrey
FloridaWriter is offline   Reply With Quote

fiberglass, rebuild, repairs, rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perkins 4-108 Rebuild Questions bobfnbw Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 06-08-2009 10:16
yanmar yse8 rebuild ShadowRWolf Engines and Propulsion Systems 18 30-03-2009 05:48
SL windlass rebuild Islandmike Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 19-02-2008 10:58
After rebuild - running in sildene Engines and Propulsion Systems 20 15-08-2007 23:41
Stringer rebuild...many ?? never monday Powered Boats 9 05-09-2006 10:34

Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:22.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.