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Old 14-01-2012, 11:09   #46
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Boats are painted outside in Trini all the time. Some great looking jobs. Still, everything Minaret says makes perfect sense. It's a different world out there though. OTOH, I didnt hear so much negativity from the pro crowd when someone asked about painting their boat in the water with a brush! BTW, my friend's boat was painted by one of the big yards in Florida (initials RS) and it was REAL expensive. 2 years later it had to be repainted in Trini. Both jobs looked the same quality wise, and the Trini job couldnt have lasted less time than the Fl job!
My 44 was painted with IMron (is that Ameron?) Airplane paint. Best paint I've seen. Sandable in one day, really ding resistant... loved it.

Imron and Ameron are two different products. Imron is an automotive paint, Ameron is an industrial paint usually used on commercial steel boats. I don't really have a problem with painting outdoors, I did quite a bit of it in the old days before we started using intake and outtake fans with filtration systems for overspray in buildings. It's just harder to get a dust-free, bug-free finish. Harder still if the boat isn't even on blocks and is sitting in dirt. Every time the painter pulls the trigger he'll be blowing dust around and into the finish. And the disrespect for all the other boats in view is the real problem with that for me, I've seen lawsuits come out of that kind of behavior. I count 3 boats uncovered in that pic, all within a hundred yards, and I seriously doubt there aren't more. A very poor way to behave in a boatyard. And then to say, oh that boats a piece of crap anyway, who cares? is just dickish. How hard is it to throw up some plastic?
I can't recommend painting a hull in the water, but I've painted plenty of decks and houses in the water. There are methods for controlling dust and overspray. I will generally tent off the whole boat in the slip, but in the old days we used to actually get the owner to take us out in the middle of Lake Washington when we brushed a final coat of varnish or paint. Out in the middle of the lake there is no dust and much fewer bugs, the farther from shore the better. Much nicer finishes. I got this idea from reading about how Japanese painters of delicate China plateware would do this centuries ago. It works. There's an old varnishers story about a guy who was a well known brightworker to the stars in Hollywood back in the day. He was famous for getting absolutely perfect finishes with no dust whatsoever in them, but no one could figure out his secret. One day he was working down below on Bogey and Bacal's boat, Santana, when the famous couple arrived unannounced. They walked below to find him lying on the floor stark naked, with all of the interior tables/removable doors hung upside down above him, happily varnishing away. Having noticed how much dust and lint can come off a person (especially if they own a pet), I applaud his ingenuity and try to emulate it as much as possible myself, although they still won't let me varnish naked at work, LOL! Some people will go to great lengths to get a nice finish. Some just don't care. I repeat, to each their own. If you want a crappy finish for cheap, by all means prep with 180 or do whatever you want. If you want to acheive a nice finish, you better use every trick you can learn, because the learning curve is big and there are a thousand ways to blow it. And if you want to achieve the elusive perfect finish, you have to make it almost a religion. Or get lucky.
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Old 14-01-2012, 13:35   #47
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Since the thread has devolved into a painting method discussion;

I re-painted my cold-molded epoxy 37' trawler with Sterling 2-part. The original finish was Awlgrip.

Did it outside, in the boatyard. The boatyard is asphalt.

3 coats of primer, 3 topcoats.

Roll and tip method.


Total price for supplies including rollers, masking, paint, thinners, reducers, etc. $850.00.

My wife and I were the prep and painters, so the labor was 'free'.


We were fortunate in that there was little wind for the 5 days spent on the project.

Primer coats can be put on the same day.
overnight is required for each topcoat.


Just another option. I had received spray quotes done in the yards ranging from $8,000-25,000.



Obviously saving $$ was nice, but the reality is that if you use your boat, you will be nicking the paint job - it just is a little easier to swallow if you only have $800 into it, rather than $8000+.
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Old 14-01-2012, 14:12   #48
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by isobelk View Post
Since the thread has devolved into a painting method discussion;

I re-painted my cold-molded epoxy 37' trawler with Sterling 2-part. The original finish was Awlgrip.

Did it outside, in the boatyard. The boatyard is asphalt.

3 coats of primer, 3 topcoats.

Roll and tip method.


Total price for supplies including rollers, masking, paint, thinners, reducers, etc. $850.00.

My wife and I were the prep and painters, so the labor was 'free'.


We were fortunate in that there was little wind for the 5 days spent on the project.

Primer coats can be put on the same day.
overnight is required for each topcoat.


Just another option. I had received spray quotes done in the yards ranging from $8,000-25,000.



Obviously saving $$ was nice, but the reality is that if you use your boat, you will be nicking the paint job - it just is a little easier to swallow if you only have $800 into it, rather than $8000+.
I did my last boat roll and tip as well, despite the fact that laydays are free for me. The buildings were all full of paying customers and I didn't want to build a tent to deal with overspray. I did Awlgrip. Sterling is much easier to roll and tip, but I just love Awlgrip. Came out quite nice. You end up using a lot more primer because it takes so much sanding to get the brushstrokes out, but that's not really a problem as long as you plan for it and use an extra coat or two of primer. Totally viable method for a cheaper finish which still looks good. With practice and the right tips and tricks, a roll and tip can come out looking just as good as a high end spray job. It is a little more dependent on conditions though. No direct sun, no wind, right temp, low humidity, right time of day, etc. Scratching a paint job is no big deal, if you can shoot the hull you can spray a blend. It's easy and repairs come out looking as good as new, they just weather a little quicker. That doesn't matter if you polish your hull occasionally though. Obviously you're not supposed to polish LPU if you don't have too, but by the time you've got a few repairs on it it does more good than harm. To me, the big drawback to a roll and tip is that you can't do a repair anymore, unless you got a perfect flow coat on your final coat.
Oh, and I wouldn't be too worried about the thread degrading, the OP took it to PM pretty early on. His questions are answered, I believe. He's not shy either, I'm sure he'll post here if he has anything more to say on the subject.
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Old 14-01-2012, 15:17   #49
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
And the disrespect for all the other boats in view is the real problem with that for me, I've seen lawsuits come out of that kind of behavior. I count 3 boats uncovered in that pic, all within a hundred yards, and I seriously doubt there aren't more. A very poor way to behave in a boatyard. And then to say, oh that boats a piece of crap anyway, who cares? is just dickish.
As dickish as making comment without knowing the situation in that yard?

Heres a map, have a look -27.439581, 153.126953 - Google Maps

At the time of build, there was (and still is)
*Steel boat building and sand blasting within 50metres
*Some sort of crushing going on in the shed to the south that has concrete dust being pumped out across the yard
* Various forms of industrial fallout from numerous factories in the area.

None of them came to me and offered to cover my boat during the build to protect it from their crap.

The boatyard was the cheapest in the area and it was a dumping ground for many "past it" boats.
There were either new builds needing to be painted (mine) or dumped pieces of ***** that would have actually looked better with shiny new over spray, not that it could have stuck due to the heavy layer of dirt that was on them anyway.

So before passing judgement, perhaps you should look at the big picture first.
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Old 14-01-2012, 15:26   #50
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Heya Minaret,

Very nice looking boat. Gotta love the color scheme with the maroon and grey.
I thought the Sterling went on great and was fairly easy to apply.

I have had a terrible time doing touch ups on scratches - I don't have tons of them, and they are mostly just small pencil eraser size pits, but I did have one that was 3 inches long and 1/2" high. It was hard to blend this into the existing.

Maybe there is no good way to get something like that touched up well?
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Old 14-01-2012, 15:56   #51
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by isobelk View Post
Heya Minaret,

Very nice looking boat. Gotta love the color scheme with the maroon and grey.
I thought the Sterling went on great and was fairly easy to apply.

I have had a terrible time doing touch ups on scratches - I don't have tons of them, and they are mostly just small pencil eraser size pits, but I did have one that was 3 inches long and 1/2" high. It was hard to blend this into the existing.

Maybe there is no good way to get something like that touched up well?

Were you trying to touch up on the hull you brushed? Like I said, a blend will only come out on a surface which is already perfectly smooth. This is the major drawback to roll and tip, you can only repair a scratch by taping it off tight with fineline and brushing some fresh over it, after fairing of course.

Glad you like the color scheme, it's kinda my signature combo. Third boat of mine I've painted in that scheme, and Awlgrip doesn't even make some of the colors anymore. I had to get them to custom produce the old colors for me so I could do it again on this one. Somehow, it's very Seattle to me. The dark grey is actually called Seattle Grey. So that's Cloud White hull, Burgundy rub rail, and house, coamings, cockpit, and bulwarks two-toned Seattle Grey and Whisper Grey. I stripped, epoxy sealed, and painted all the exterior varnish at the same time, except the caprail, which I stripped and let go grey. That's a Bingham Anastasia 36, a truly sweet little boat. All bronze oversized hardware, tall rig, etc. etc.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:05   #52
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
As dickish as making comment without knowing the situation in that yard?

At least. Nothing I said here cost you a dime. However, anyone who may try to restore one of the boats you oversprayed down the road will find they need to polish all the overspray off of the portholes and hardware, if not everywhere else, to get it looking good again. It will cost them, if not money then time and effort, which is the same thing. Doesn't matter if you think they weren't nice to you, or if they were already dirty, etc. It's not your boat, you have no right to make decisions for the owner about whether he cares or not. And I thought dust wasn't an issue on this shoot? Now it turns out that theres a cement crushing operation in the yard and factories nearby dumping soot, as well as a steel boat grinding nearby . Seems like even more reason to put a plastic sheet over that shed, and help your own job to come out without a ton of dust in it, as well as protecting your neighbors boat from your overspray. But I guess you already defeated that purpose by failing to put a tarp down under the boat or to block it. Clearly you don't care about the quality of your own finish, or any of your neighbors either. I'd hate to have you in my yard; you'd get the boot real quick.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:26   #53
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
<crying>
I'd hate to have you in my yard; you'd get the boot real quick.
Nice rant but at the end of the day I wouldn't be in your yard in the first oplace as you charge $30k for a paint job, you said so yourself, much like the guys down the road from where I built who get the same fallout as I did as they to, mostly paint in the open.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:30   #54
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I did my last boat roll and tip as well, despite the fact that laydays are free for me. The buildings were all full of paying customers and I didn't want to build a tent to deal with overspray. I did Awlgrip. Sterling is much easier to roll and tip, but I just love Awlgrip. Came out quite nice. You end up using a lot more primer because it takes so much sanding to get the brushstrokes out, but that's not really a problem as long as you plan for it and use an extra coat or two of primer. Totally viable method for a cheaper finish which still looks good. With practice and the right tips and tricks, a roll and tip can come out looking just as good as a high end spray job. It is a little more dependent on conditions though. No direct sun, no wind, right temp, low humidity, right time of day, etc. Scratching a paint job is no big deal, if you can shoot the hull you can spray a blend. It's easy and repairs come out looking as good as new, they just weather a little quicker. That doesn't matter if you polish your hull occasionally though. Obviously you're not supposed to polish LPU if you don't have too, but by the time you've got a few repairs on it it does more good than harm. To me, the big drawback to a roll and tip is that you can't do a repair anymore, unless you got a perfect flow coat on your final coat.
Oh, and I wouldn't be too worried about the thread degrading, the OP took it to PM pretty early on. His questions are answered, I believe. He's not shy either, I'm sure he'll post here if he has anything more to say on the subject.


I have to concur with the prep. I primed, sanded, then rolled and tipped my Luders 33 with Interlux Perfection in black, to keep the original color scheme. Obviously the most unforgiving and least durable color, but the boat is just meant to have the color scheme. I couldn't see spending 75% of the purchase price on the job, but I did spend the extra time preparing, including sanding down to 320 grit. Sure there were a few brush marks you could see 5-10 feet away, but the price was right. And I did do it outdoors, so waited for dry, still day, and wet down the ground around the boat to reduce dust. The yard manager came by halfway through prep to make sure I wasn't going to be crazy and spray outdoors with all the boats around and releasing VOCs.
See attached pix- not bad for a newbie if I say so myself, but I definitely increased my odds with fastidious prep and sanding. Got to say the perfection paint did flow nicely, but on first coat I applied too thick. It looked great after 1 min, but ran after 5. The proper thickness meant brush strokes looked impossibly permanent, but would smooth out within 5 min as paint set.
Have 3 seasons on paint and still looks good. I just touch up the nicks with 1 part bootstripe paint, and in 3-5 years will sand and fair out these spots...
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:49   #55
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Nice rant but at the end of the day I wouldn't be in your yard in the first oplace as you charge $30k for a paint job, you said so yourself, much like the guys down the road from where I built who get the same fallout as I did as they to, mostly paint in the open.
Google Maps

Oh, we have lot's of do-it-yourselfers. In fact, we are the last yard in the area that will actually allow you to haul a boat without requiring that you hire us to do anything at all. We are very welcoming to respectful DIY owners. Lot's of guys paint their own boats here, and I go out of my way to help them, as long as they have a good attitude. Not just with advice, but often with free work after hours, paid for in beer and conversation. And materials they cannot get for themselves, at a substantial discount. Sometimes even free out the backdoor, for little things which are needed now. I've pulled the trigger for free plenty of times for people who I liked, after they did all prep themselves. Usually I have to do it on the weekend, because it pisses the boss off. But since I'm the one who maintains the shop spray equipment, I don't feel it's costing him anything, and it brings good word of mouth. Just because we charge 30k (or more) to pull all the hardware on a 40' trawler and then paint it stem to stern, including house, flybridge, and non skid on the decks, and reinstalling and rebedding all hardware, doesn't mean we can't bang out a cheap paint job too. We keep all options on the table. And, you get what you pay for. Notice the all new rub rails, polished stainless, etc. etc.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:59   #56
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
I have to concur with the prep. I primed, sanded, then rolled and tipped my Luders 33 with Interlux Perfection in black, to keep the original color scheme. Obviously the most unforgiving and least durable color, but the boat is just meant to have the color scheme. I couldn't see spending 75% of the purchase price on the job, but I did spend the extra time preparing, including sanding down to 320 grit. Sure there were a few brush marks you could see 5-10 feet away, but the price was right. And I did do it outdoors, so waited for dry, still day, and wet down the ground around the boat to reduce dust. The yard manager came by halfway through prep to make sure I wasn't going to be crazy and spray outdoors with all the boats around and releasing VOCs.
See attached pix- not bad for a newbie if I say so myself, but I definitely increased my odds with fastidious prep and sanding. Got to say the perfection paint did flow nicely, but on first coat I applied too thick. It looked great after 1 min, but ran after 5. The proper thickness meant brush strokes looked impossibly permanent, but would smooth out within 5 min as paint set.
Have 3 seasons on paint and still looks good. I just touch up the nicks with 1 part bootstripe paint, and in 3-5 years will sand and fair out these spots...
Nice work! Especially for a newb painting black, the least forgiving color except for maybe bright red. Sure you don't need a job? You could replace me, since I'm about to retire forever! Your bootstripe layout is even straight...
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Old 14-01-2012, 17:11   #57
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Beautiful job. That Nordic is a first class boat.
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Old 14-01-2012, 17:25   #58
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Beautiful job. That Nordic is a first class boat.

Thanks! Much appreciated from a fellow pro.
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Old 14-01-2012, 19:36   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret

Nice work! Especially for a newb painting black, the least forgiving color except for maybe bright red. Sure you don't need a job? You could replace me, since I'm about to retire forever! Your bootstripe layout is even straight...



Nice of you to say. Actually the bootstripe gave me migraines, and I had to move the waterline at the stern the following year at haulout.
No, I'm fine on jobs. If I worked on boats for a living then what would I do for an enjoyable hobby?
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Old 14-01-2012, 21:23   #60
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Ok, I think now would be a good time for you guys to give us amateurs the tips and tricks to a good roll and tip job. How about it? I think you're carrying around invaluable information that can't be obtained from a book.
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