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Old 12-01-2012, 14:03   #31
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Laugh all you like but countless thousands of boats sprayed the same way around the world with not an issue.
The overspray cant tell if it is landing on free newspaper or purchased plastic.
and the proof is in the pudding with the 180 prep.
No sanding marks can be seen if you put on more that one layer of paint.

My building and spraying sheds cost $0.00 a week in rent, how about yours?


Can the overspray tell if its landing on your neighbors boat?
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Old 12-01-2012, 14:07   #32
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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Can the overspray tell if its landing on your neighbors boat?
The neighbours boat is a piece of ***** that was to be scrapped and was covered in dew and dirt, so the paint wouldn't stick to anything.
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Old 12-01-2012, 15:22   #33
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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The neighbours boat is a piece of ***** that was to be scrapped and was covered in dew and dirt, so the paint wouldn't stick to anything.
And so is the truck - probably belongs to the painter.

I realize that "this" is Texas, but boats are painted without ground cover all the time.
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Old 12-01-2012, 15:42   #34
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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Not everyone wants/needs a professional job.
What makes a job professional, an expensive shed & expensive hourly rate?
Or could it be the end result?

FWIW I did my apprenticeship @ Lloyds Ships building boats like this one spending considerable time during that period doing fairing and prep work so I would like to think I have enough of an idea.



The guy pulling the trigger is responsible for the paintjobs on some of Australia's fastest racing and cruising Multihull's, mostly painted in the same product I used and mostly, in similar conditions.

Of course I could have hired the big shed and got a team involved, but somehow I doubt the job would have come out that much better and it certainly could not be justified by the huge difference in cost.
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Old 13-01-2012, 07:26   #35
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Laugh all you like but countless thousands of boats sprayed the same way around the world with not an issue.
The overspray cant tell if it is landing on free newspaper or purchased plastic.
and the proof is in the pudding with the 180 prep.
No sanding marks can be seen if you put on more that one layer of paint.

Oh, and paint job for this vessel cost less than $500 in labour and about the same in primer and topcoat, no runs, no dirt, no stuck paper.

My building and spraying sheds cost $0.00 a week in rent, how about yours?
That right there tells me how clueless ya are. Paint shrinks as it cures. When it shrinks, it conforms to the surface beneath it. No amount of coats will cover scratches. They'll show through as haze due to defraction. BTW, we would do that trawler for about the same as Minaret's price. Your Buddy in AUS is NOT someone I'd want painting a boat for me, judging on his lack of care and the crappy finish I'm seeing...
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Old 13-01-2012, 11:59   #36
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

As to 180 grit for topcoat, let me just note that the profilometer readings for the depth of a 180 grit scratch is 3.4 mils. The OP's paint has a dry film thickness of 3-4 mils, as do most polyurethanes. That means that a 180 grit scratch is deeper than the paint is thick. How could that possibly work out without printing through? You'd have to put on twice as many coats as the manufacterer recommends, which is 2-3 depending on wet film thickness. That's 6 coats of paint for a good painter, which would more than defeat the purpose by multiplying peel and creating solvent popping. Cat Man Do may have been involved in some builds, but I seriously doubt he had anything to do with painting them given the lack of knowledge displayed here. I on the other hand actually have a degree in boatbuilding and have built and painted boats from dinghy's to America's cup racers. I doubt Cat even knows what a profilometer is.


http://www.massasoit.com/SurfaceMeasurements2.pdf
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:07   #37
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post



The guy pulling the trigger is responsible for the paintjobs on some of Australia's fastest racing and cruising Multihull's, mostly painted in the same product I used and mostly, in similar conditions.
You really expect us to believe that boats like this are painted in open sheds, unblocked and sitting on the dirt, masked with newspaper, in the middle of a yard full of other boats with no protection for them? It just wouldn't be possible, for countless reasons. And in my pics I AM the guy pulling the trigger. I don't just push a longboard for a living.
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Old 13-01-2012, 14:54   #38
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

minaret and charliecobra seem to be really upset at the fact that people can and do paint boats successfully and with good results without employing overpriced painting teams.

I suspect by the tone of his replies, reeking in desperation and venom that business is hurting
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Old 13-01-2012, 21:10   #39
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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Never had an issue finding and eating pork in Malaysia, mainly in more Chinese areas, but it is available
Malaysian cuisine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





The image below is my last boat being blown
That was dry sanded with 180 as have the majority of boats I have had any say in.

That paint job doesn't have much gloss. Minaret's paint jobs have a brilliant shine. Is that because of the paint you are using downunder?
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Old 13-01-2012, 22:38   #40
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Re: Polishing linear polyurethane imperfections?

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That paint job doesn't have much gloss. Minaret's paint jobs have a brilliant shine. Is that because of the paint you are using downunder?
It had enough gloss to hurt the eyes in the harsh Australian sun and from memory, there may have been some flattening agent in the paint to knock back some of the glare (or maybe that was just the interior)

Plus Minarets paint job is considerably more expensive and time consuming.
Considerably more expensive and time consuming is not something I was interested in, quotes from the pro's were about 40% of the total cost of vessel and it would never have been recouped in the sale.


Having been involved in a few builds for fastidious owners, I and many others realise that a 70% perfect fairing and paint job fools 99% of the people yet takes a small fraction of the time and dollars to achieve in comparison to the perfect job.

After a few years in the salt, sun, with dings and scrapes, the uber expensive job does not look as good as it did anyway so whats the point of all the extra time and money?

* With the 70% job, you are in the water enjoying the boat sooner
* Not working all those extra hours to pay for the extra labour and shed hire
* The birds shitting on it dont show any more respect for the expensive job
* I get less angered with dinghies and larger boats bouncing off of the 70% job than expensive paint job owners

* Also here in Australia during the period I was building we saw lots of those expensive paintjobs with fine grit sanding jobs done, having paint pulled off as tape was peeled away (yes, the right tape was used).
Recommendations from paint suppliers at the time was to not go so fine a grit on the sanding.
* It has also been the observation during the same period in Australia that dark colours, blues and red, faded very fast. One large cat had red awlgrip fade to nothing in about 18mths, so that is why many custom builders steered clear of expensive paints and to this day, use "industrial" paints.

And, it was the first coat of paint.
It definitely looked better after the third coat and a few days.
But no, not as good as minarets.
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Old 13-01-2012, 23:30   #41
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Just to be clear, I am not trying to advocate a perfect job for anyone who is new at this such as the OP, especially not someone who is in a location like his. I'm just trying to give him some advice to achieve the best results possible with the materials available to him. I don't understand why sanding the primer to 320 instead of 180 will suddenly make the job cost 40% of the boat instead of much less. On a boat that size it would be a long days work for two guys with two DA's, some grit, and some guide coat. No big deal, especially if you are doing it yourself. The materials are so expensive I just can't see skimping on a couple of little steps to ensure a better result. Who cares if it takes a couple of days more work, as long as it comes out looking great? Isn't that what every painter wants? A beautiful finish when the job is done? And especially for a new painter, he needs to use everything which might help him to achieve a nice finish. However, to each their own. I can see where some people going cruising might not be too concerned about a nice finish. But until someone tells me that's not what they are interested in, I'll keep trying to help them get to that nice finish, since that's what I know how to do. I think people can look at the links provided and decide for themselves whether my advice applies to them or not.
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Old 14-01-2012, 00:15   #42
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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I don't understand why sanding the primer to 320 instead of 180 will suddenly make the job cost 40% of the boat instead of much less.
It was the pro's who wanted 40% of boat value
Even you said you charge $30k for a 40 footer
I dont know why you guys charge so much for a bit of sanding, like you said,its
Quote:
No big deal
If its no big deal, why the $30k charge?

But it's a bit pointless chasing a finish like you show unless the boat is 100% fair and blemish free to start with.
Do you think the OP's is?
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Old 14-01-2012, 05:28   #43
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

South Florida has some of the harshest conditions for paint so most of the testing for paint systems is done a couple of towns over from where I live. What I don't understand is using a cheaper grade of paint after you have spent so many long hours in the heat to do the prep work. How much money could you be saving? $100 and the job starts out dull from the start? For my own taste, I spend the extra $$$ so I can enjoy the shine for the 10-15 years I will have the paint job.

I watched a couple brush their boat last week and for every hour they were working on the boat, they were doing $500 worth of damage. Owners will do things to a $150,000 boat that they would not do to a $2,000 car. Figure that one out and you will be an instant millionaire.

What Minaret is describing are the steps that are required to fix damage done by poor workmanship and bring the boat up the the level where the owner is proud of their boat and the painter is proud of their art. The owner has no problem with the cost because they knew the expense up front and that is the quality they demanded. Some people will drive a Mercedes and some people will drive a wreck...they are both cars. This is something that is internal to the individual and is neither right or wrong. For the guy who will pay for Minaret's level of quality or for the Minarets out there, they will watch people destroy their boat and shake their heads in amazement. The other people will down a beer, slap each other on the back and laugh about how much money they saved. Their boat looks like crap but they are justified.

To Epicurian, what Minaret is telling you is "by the book" correct. Follow his instructions to the letter and you will have a finish that looks great for years to come. At the end of the day, you can have a beer and be proud of your work. To me, this is a better feeling than being justified.

For the rest of the people on the fence, save yourself the time and expense and buy some house paint from home depot. You can drink your beer at the end of they day and wonder why anyone would pay for a half ass job when they could have been truthful to themselves and saved all the money you just saved.
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Old 14-01-2012, 10:26   #44
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

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Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
minaret and charliecobra seem to be really upset at the fact that people can and do paint boats successfully and with good results without employing overpriced painting teams.

I suspect by the tone of his replies, reeking in desperation and venom that business is hurting
Nah, no venom, no desperation either. I've seen decent paint jobs by non-professionals in less than adequate facilities but the quality is not on par with a pro job. Does it look good at 20 feet? Yes, and that's usually acceptable to many owners. I mean, once it's on the water, even a poor paint job looks decent. It's when it's under the lights and you're a foot away that the differences become striking. I could see painting over 400 grit sanding with a couple of coats, not 180. I've been there, done that and had to block and respray. I cannot see spraying outside in any condition. I tried that with primer on a Valiant 40. It was miserable and costly to fix.
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Old 14-01-2012, 10:43   #45
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Re: Polishing Linear Polyurethane Imperfections

Boats are painted outside in Trini all the time. Some great looking jobs. Still, everything Minaret says makes perfect sense. It's a different world out there though. OTOH, I didnt hear so much negativity from the pro crowd when someone asked about painting their boat in the water with a brush! BTW, my friend's boat was painted by one of the big yards in Florida (initials RS) and it was REAL expensive. 2 years later it had to be repainted in Trini. Both jobs looked the same quality wise, and the Trini job couldnt have lasted less time than the Fl job!
My 44 was painted with IMron (is that Ameron?) Airplane paint. Best paint I've seen. Sandable in one day, really ding resistant... loved it.
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