Polishing gel coat with Window cleaner

[David B]

Originally Posted by Annabel

We were in a marina in Preveza recently and saw a man polishing his boat, it was very shiny and beautiful, not a particularly new boat, but not very old either. The finish came up like it was new though. He said he was using just ordinary old window cleaner. I tried it on a small bit of our new Hanse, and it was quite easy and felt and looked smooth and beautiful. Can anyone think of a reason not to use it, could have any negative effect down the track. Thanks

It would be cleaning an already polished gelcoat, but offer no protection from oxidation, UV damage etc.

We have tried various polishes and waxes etc, but they don't last, nor often give 'wow!' results.

Then I came across a nano particle=based sealer. I have used it on old chalky fibreglass to great effect - the nanoparticles scuff off the oxidised gelcoat and then seal it with a 'wow!' result. Plus I found it lasts more than two years (yes - really).

I have also used on gelcoat in good condition - there it just polishes and seals. In that situation we have over-wintered in a yard where the travel-lift is running many hours a day and on our return, we have black streaking at run-off places on the hull - presumably from the diesel fumes. Those stains take a bit of washing off, and we usually therefore apply the gelcoat sealer again before we head off for the season.

I apply with a slow-speed cordless polisher (Milwaukee - the only 'proper' cordless polishing machine I know of and very happy with it - many automotive repair companies use them apparently), then buff off with a soft cloth or paper towel by hand. Takes me 6 hours or so for a 50 footer, but well worth it.

A 1000ml can lasts me a couple of seasons therefore on the 50 footer. Here is the link to the companies webpage for the product.
GELCOAT SEALING PRO – LION PROTECT

[Capn Jimbo]

http://www.nanoman.com.au/SDS-Nanoma...h-and-Seal.pdf

Originally Posted by David B

It would be cleaning an already polished gelcoat, but offer no protection from oxidation, UV damage etc.

We have tried various polishes and waxes etc, but they don't last, nor often give 'wow!' results.

Then I came across a nano particle=based sealer. I have used it on old chalky fibreglass to great effect - the nanoparticles scuff off the oxidised gelcoat and then seal it with a 'wow!' result. Plus I found it lasts more than two years (yes - really).

I have also used on gelcoat in good condition - there it just polishes and seals. In that situation we have over-wintered in a yard where the travel-lift is running many hours a day and on our return, we have black streaking at run-off places on the hull - presumably from the diesel fumes. Those stains take a bit of washing off, and we usually therefore apply the gelcoat sealer again before we head off for the season.

I apply with a slow-speed cordless polisher (Milwaukee - the only 'proper' cordless polishing machine I know of and very happy with it - many automotive repair companies use them apparently), then buff off with a soft cloth or paper towel by hand. Takes me 6 hours or so for a 50 footer, but well worth it.

A 1000ml can lasts me a couple of seasons therefore on the 50 footer. Here is the link to the companies webpage for the product.
GELCOAT SEALING PRO – LION PROTECT

Wow effect for this product is right... but the "wow" is how dangerous this stuff can be. From what I'm reading this product would require aTyvex body suit, goggles, respirators and gloves, tarp. Cleanup will be an issue as well as disposal of contaminated materials. Read their linked safety data sheet:


http://www.lionprotect.eu/wp-content...UK_1.0_CLP.pdf


And here is another Australian "nano" (I say no-no) similar product:

http://www.nanoman.com.au/SDS-Nanoma...h-and-Seal.pdf




For the life of me, I can't understand why we sailors are willing to take such risks - or recommend the same - for a tiny schooch more shine. I also hate to think of what this stuff does to our environment, not only in application but in use. I think when we recommend something new or unusual it would be wise to tell the whole story.


As for me, there are much simpler and safer solutions that all pass the 10 foot rule. I use an automotive Turtle cleaner wax. No respirators, no Tyvex, no risk, no worries. Easy peasy.



Carry on...

[Tillsbury]

I think you may not be used to reading data sheets. That looks almost completely harmless, and is not classified as DG. Remember the majority of that document is boilerplate stuff written by lawyers.

[Capn Jimbo]

I think you may not be used to reading data sheets. That looks almost completely harmless, and is not classified as DG. Remember the majority of that document is boilerplate stuff written by lawyers.

Au contraire... as a former lab tech doing material specs, and later, as an RN reading drug sheets et al - I know very well how to read and properly interpret the important parts of data sheets as I was educated, and experienced during my career. And the specific warnings I reviewed - apart from the usual boilerplate - were not "boilerplate".

Period.

To reject a datasheet on such a flimsand generalized assertion is simply foolish. And dangerous. This material, while not DG is far from harmless. This product is no anywhere near as safe as car or boat wax; rather you will need precautions and disposal similar for example, to the use or removal of toxic bottom paints. Be very careful where you place your trust. Read - and make up your own mind. Call or write the manufacturer.

But fer gawd's sake, do your OWN due diligence and please, please don't rely on the expurts so common here at CF. The data sheets of this and a similar product were linked - read them.

Carry on.

[ramblinrod]

Window cleaner does not polish gelcoat.

It will remove soil, remove wax, and remove some oxidation.

It will also leave the gelcoat completely unprotected from UV damage, unsealed to prevent soil, mild, and foreign matter entrapment.

To demonstrate this, spill some red wine on window cleaner cleaned, and again on properly polished and waxed gelcoat. The window cleaner cleaned area will be permanently stained unless bleached, cleaned with “Spray Nine” (pro tip for red wine stain removal without wrecking clothes and upholstery) or aggressively compounded.

Many people do not understand gelcoat maintenance. “I just want my boat waxed.”

The proper restoration process is dependant on condition. A pro gelcoat maintenance tech will never give an estimate sight unseen, or from photos, without inspection and testing response to materials. (Unless the estimate is for worst case, and you pay that no matter what, which to me, is unethical unless the foolish customer demands a firm quote over the phone.) In these circumstances, (if we will even accept the customer), we quote a range of lowest to highest estimated cost, dependant on condition. So this in the order of X to 6X.

And prospect assertion that “It looks pretty good and just needs a wax”, means absolutely nothing.

Waxing a UV damaged boat is like painting wrotten wood.

Regardless of condition, before any work, a very thorough wash is required to remove all loose grit (so it doesn’t get ground into the gelcoat) and dirt and slime (so it doesn’t contaminate pads and get smeared all over).

If the gelcoat is UV damaged (porous and faded) it will likely require aggressive wet sanding to start.

Then (or if it was not UV damaged, but oxidized (chalky) it will then require an aggressive compound.

Then (or if only slightly oxidized) a light compound.

Then (or if not oxidized) a polish. This removes the fine scratches left by the abrasive.

Finally a wax. The wax fills the microscopic scratches left by the polish, seals out dirt, and provided a very little bit of UV protection.

There are a lot of snake oil products on the market, as well as so called “one step” products, that may make things look OK initially, but don't provide a lasting shine and end up being as much or more work down the road, with the boat looking worse for wear between redos.

Of the decent products, take your pick. Grit is grit, wax is wax. The brand preference is like comparing blondes, brunettes, and red heads.

Anything that claims to add “essential oils” or “silicone”, or applies an acrylic coating over dull fibreglass, should be avoided. They don’t really fix the problem (again like painting wrotten wood), and may make future vessel paint or gelcoat repairs cost 2-5 times more, just to remove it.)

Oil, silicone, or acrylic, must be completely removed with solvents before any process is applied. Most compounds contain ammonia to dissolve any remaining wax, and suspend it in the carrier, which then just blows away when it is buffed off.

Compounds do not dissolve petroleum based oils, silicone, or acrylic.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Annabel

We were in a marina in Preveza recently and saw a man polishing his boat, it was very shiny and beautiful, not a particularly new boat, but not very old either. The finish came up like it was new though. He said he was using just ordinary old window cleaner. I tried it on a small bit of our new Hanse, and it was quite easy and felt and looked smooth and beautiful. Can anyone think of a reason not to use it, could have any negative effect down the track. Thanks

I have a 83 ketch, about 6yrs ago I ran into a product called Polyglow. After a good scrubbing to deglase and 5 coats all around in about an hr, with no buffing. Best shine I've seen on older fiberglass. That one application last 2 seasons, a quick scrub and recoat it was back to the shine.



I don't think I would use a window cleaner to help protect the gelcoat form UV.

[Tudorsailor]

Some fellow yachts owners have recommended nano cleaning and polishing from Marine Protective Coating | Nanotech SST Ltd Apparently in the aircraft world, they nw use nano technology to stop dirt sticking to the fuselage of jets

The reports for the nanotech are glowing on Amazon. Their website is a bit overwhelming but they have good customer support and answer emails

No commercial links

Tudorsailor

[JWJClarke]

Regarding the original post - do NOT use Windex. Period. It contains AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE, which is of high concern for acute aquatic toxicity.

I am a seasoned yachting professional, as well as a focused environmentalist, and it amazes me that boat owners continue to use products that harm the very ecosystem that provides their enjoyment.

I’ve even encountered “professional” washdown/detailing crews who swore by Mr. Clean Magic Erasers and polyester microfibre cloths - both of which have no justifiable role to play in the marine environment. They were quickly fired when they refused to change their practices.

No one is perfect, but the responsibility lies on the shoulders of all mariners, both professional and recreational, to do their research before buying any products for servicing and maintaining their vessel.

Fair winds & following seas,

JC

[blazing928]

My 2cents;

Random orbital sander
Heavy duty cut microfibre pads
wash boat, not with a wash and wax additive!
Wipe with IPA
3m medium cutter
Wipe with IPA
Nanoman protector coat.

RE above post on nano polishes. So little is used there is no fling and barely any to buff off when dry. If there is, you have used too much. same with 3m cutter, just 3 pea sized blobs and polish till there is none left.

Poilishing outside, I don’t think you would get too much inhalation of dust, as long as you use the minimum amount. Wear a mask if concerned.

Nanoman far outlasts any wax period.

Currently doing a nanoman stainless polish vs another brand on boat. We will see!

[danstanford]

Of great importance is the absolute no-no of getting windex or other ammonia products on any acrylic windows. If you have seen crazed plastic hatches or windows you have likely seen Windex at work.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Of great importance is the absolute no-no of getting windex or other ammonia products on any acrylic windows. If you have seen crazed plastic hatches or windows you have likely seen Windex at work.

Windex® Original Glass Cleaner is formulated with Ammonia-D®.
The following “Windex” products do not contain ammonia. They can be used in cases where cleaning with ammonia is not recommended.
• Windex® Ammonia-Free Glass Cleaner
• Windex® Vinegar Glass Cleaner
• Windex® Disinfectant Cleaner Multi-Surface
• Windex® Disinfectant Cleaner Multi-Surface with Glade® Rainshower®
• Windex® Multi-Surface Cleaner Lavender
• Windex® Outdoor Sprayer
• Windex® Outdoor All-In-One Starter Kit
• Windex® Electronics Wipes
➥ https://www.windex.com/en-us/inspira...out-windex/faq

[Yeoey]

Hi Annabel,

There are some very fine comments about the quality aspect of the polish and added to this thread and if I may add a thought for you based on my experiences, may I suggest you look at a waxing machine made by an American company called Mothers.

Our yacht is based in a large marina on the Gold Coast where nearly all the vessels are polished by professionals who from my enquiry and observations , tend to polish with an electric buffing machine in most areas using a paste mixture of a cutting compound and a quality polish although one large vessel was recently treated with a ceramic coating at great expense. The detailers all seem to have a small pouch housing their pasts, on a belt together with a cheap paint brush for initial paste application together with hand cloths for areas difficult to machine buff.

In my case being past the 3 score and 10 years of my life and doing as much as I can myself, I split my process onto buffing with an electric polishing tool that is light enough fir me to handle and I then polish with a Mothers machine which is called “Wax Attack”. I originally made enquiries about an electric polishing machine which has 4 oscillating heads and used by a large commercial car cleaning business nearby.

I found I didn’t need the electric type and the lithium battery model WAx Attack machine holds sufficient battery life that I carry it with me if I away from 240 power and want to polish the boat at anchor in between studying the ifs and buts of life. You mat google For more information.

I simply wax on an area of about 1/2 square metre then place a micro fibre cloth on the machine to wax off.

Hope this may be of interest to you

Yeoey

[GordMay]

Greetings and belated welcome aboard the CF, Yeoey.

[Annabel]

Thank you all very much, great suggestions