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Old 10-02-2015, 20:05   #46
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

Interesting thread Matt, thanks. I have gotten slightly cavalier over the years I guess, and just focus on the major, and the easy to fix stuff. Fuel getting out breathers is not a big issue IMO. . Yes, make sure tanks, batteries, stove and engine are well secured, and things like tables and engine boxes. Floorboards and locker lids are no brainers. I am always wary of tools and knifes!

Water in the mast is annoying, watch out where the water exits as the pressure will be like a firehose blasting out as it drains. A few yachts have foam inserts in the top half to help reduce the upside down time. If the mast is keel stepped ideally the lower part inside should be watertight. But in reality the big problem is keeping the mast in the boat. I have a theory that its the spreaders that fail in an inversion. It seems that in most cases the mast gets lost... Make sure your spinnaker poles and boom is well secured for a jury rig, but I note that jury rigging a mast seems to be old fashioned these days, simply switching on an epirb is the modern way to get back to shore.

I use rabbit hutch latches on nearly everything, including floorboards. I just hack up some 50mmx8mm or so of hardwood trim, usually with a nicely rounded edge from the shop. If I have time I round off and router the ends, and oil, but mostly I don't have time so I just clean up the rough sawcut and call it done. then I screw it on with an 8 gauge screw into a backing block, you adjust the tension of the latch with a screwdriver. I can remove them and just use the normal (usually inadequate) latches for most coastal stuff. Only screwing them on for offshore stuff.

Another idea is to drill small holes in the plywood and use VB cord (or small spectra) to tie lockers shut. Little spectra loops though two holes make easy (and soft) lashing points. No matter how well you think you have prepared the boat is going to be a bombsite, so be mentally prepared for this. Don't start to think your preparation is perfect because then when it's not you will start to lose confidence and panic.

The biggest issue by far is injuries. Almost everything else can be dealt with. Rigging tight lines through the middle of the boat inside can help stop people flying about in rough stuff, and limit the damage if they do.

I like the idea of a soft helmet and seat belts for the bunks. Another idea is big lee cloths that go right to the roof or deck. If they are made of light mesh they would stop you flying out, and stop heavy things flying in. I have a horror of the irony from being bashed to death by Adlard Coles heavy weather sailing in a knockdown! Sleeping on the windward side is better from this respect. I like sticking my head down into a quarter berth where it's pretty well protected in nasty weather. It's the ostrich idea.

Everything will most likely get wet, and electrics probably won't work well, or for long. So having a dry bag with some dry clothes, TPA's, and some emergency snacks, torches etc is a good idea. A few foam camping mats gives you something warm to sleep on, instead of soggy mattresses.

Heading south to antarctica I carried a spare SSB in a watertight container, and had a watertight box that went over the main HF. Sat Phones are good like this, being easy to store. I also had an inside and an outside liferaft. I figured the outside one probably wouldn't survive a rollover despite being much more securely lashed than most I have seen.
Cheers

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Old 10-02-2015, 20:15   #47
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

Don't think your preparation will be perfect because then when it's not you will start to lose confidence and panic.

Great advice, Ben.

Our mattresses have a 10 mm closed cell foam layer on the bottom. They would work inverted, just be fairly firm.

We've never had clothes in the dry bag, but if going where you took Snow Petrel, would, for sure, and a couple of blankets, too.
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Old 10-02-2015, 20:18   #48
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

Oh, and make sure your mainsail is well secured. not the half assed lashing you sometimes see, a real storm gasket, to make sure it can't fill up with water. Boom bags can be good like this but still need lashing to compress them into a tight bundle.
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Old 10-02-2015, 20:54   #49
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

[QUOTE=Ann T. Cate;1746104][COLOR="blue"]
Our mattresses have a 10 mm closed cell foam layer on the bottom. They would work inverted, just be fairly firm./QUOTE]

Good idea Ann, gluing foam to the underside. Should help keep that mould away from the undersides.

I sometimes sleep on my camping mat to keep the mattress dry at sea. Maybe flipping your style of mattresses at sea might help keep them dryer in a knockdown or rollover? One boat I sailed had the mattresses completely covered in plastic under the fabric. It worked well. We stripped and hosed them off after 45 days at sea and they looked like new.

I also remember a small boat I sailed to tonga years ago, after a nasty knockdown everything got soaked, and it took about 3 days to dry the mattresses out enough to sleep on without wet weather gear. We hoisted them up the mast to dry in the strong trades.

Oh forgot, computer in a dry case of some type.

cheers

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Old 10-02-2015, 20:59   #50
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I have a horror of the irony from being bashed to death by Adlard Coles heavy weather sailing in a knockdown!
Well, there went that mouthful of coffee... had to dry the keyboard, thanks a lot.

As for the rest of it, terrific stuff. Really good point about the whole morale thing, this has come across in books I have read from long distance sailors, the whole depression that sets in from a scrambled cabin, everything wet, broken, slippery... eergh. Not much you can do I suppose except be prepared for it as you suggest.

You also have increased the scope of consideration by pointing out that the exterior of the boat needs adequate preparation. I like your point about well secured spinnaker poles etc. The chance of losing the mast is quite high it seems (unless you are talking Parry Endeavour, which had a REALLY well attached mast).

I can confidently say our spinnaker pole is not well enough secured (ever since I removed it from the shrouds, where, I suppose, it was equally likely to be lost if we lost the mast), not sure about the life raft, I suppose, if I were to go where you went I would follow your solution to that problem. We'd lose around half of our winch handles, say goodbye to the dink for sure, electrical like radar would be dead. If the windgen survived the physical strain it would be likely to be able to be got going again, might have to go back and find that thread on how to align the blades though.

I guess the topsides are, by their nature, better secured, but there could be traps. In a big blow I always assumed I would not only zip up the boom bag, but lash it tight as I possibly could (time permitting) as I figure zips are not infallible under strain, particularly old nylon zips. Once or twice now I have seen boom bags give way in our marina in a blow, and that's pretty sheltered.

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Old 10-02-2015, 21:00   #51
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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Oh forgot, computer in a dry case of some type.
Computer...? On a boat...? Sacre bleu.
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Old 10-02-2015, 21:18   #52
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Our mattresses have a 10 mm closed cell foam layer on the bottom. They would work inverted, just be fairly firm.
Er... without wanting to gross anyone out, I would expect that layer trap body moisture and cause problems, unless it is not impervious? I've gone to some trouble to improve the ventilation under our mattresses for just this reason. Am I missing something important? Just curious.

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Old 10-02-2015, 21:54   #53
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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Computer...? On a boat...? Sacre bleu.
Err.. I meant weather fax receiver/auxiliary chart plotter/PDF viewer
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Old 10-02-2015, 21:57   #54
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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Err.. I meant weather fax receiver/auxiliary chart plotter/PDF viewer
And don't you forget it!
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Old 10-02-2015, 22:22   #55
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

What about the sole. Mine can be screwed down, but I leave it unscrewed so I can inspect the bilge. I admit more cincerned about a problem with a thru hull and being able to tack it down quickly than a roll over. If I was in roll over conditions in would think everyone would be on deck and tethered,or in a bunk with lee cloths which would help protect them friM flying debris
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Old 10-02-2015, 22:26   #56
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

Sorry about all of the iPad spelling corrections. I hope people can understand what I said. Or understated wot I sailed
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Old 10-02-2015, 22:38   #57
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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What about the sole. Mine can be screwed down, but I leave it unscrewed so I can inspect the bilge. I admit more cincerned about a problem with a thru hull and being able to tack it down quickly than a roll over.
I had the same concern, but I got lucky, all ours were in other places. I think Ann's suggestion of hatches at the various inspection points is the way to go though.

Sometimes I do worry about a leak forming somewhere under a bit of the sole that is inaccesible, then I tell myself that this is pretty unlikely, and if it were to happen it would either be too fast to be able to fix anyway, or slow enough that I had time to get to it with a screwdriver. Possible self dellusional, hopefully I will never know.

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Old 11-02-2015, 06:28   #58
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Re: Planning for a roll-over

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I have a horror of the irony from being bashed to death by Adlard Coles heavy weather sailing in a knockdown!
Okay, now that there made me laugh!
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