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Old 27-01-2011, 13:01   #1
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Outward Deck to Hull Flange Issues

my 43 foot boat is about 20 yrs old and has an outward flange hull to deck joint. I have a couple of issues i'm looking to address and resolve.

1: small hairline cracks about 5 inches long sporadically through out the length of the boat in the curve of the underside lip
are these hairline cracks common and not an issue? or does the toe-rail need to be removed and this section sanded down and re-glassed?


2: On the over hung toe rail (the bottom part) seems to have caulking or 5200 coming out. I see no signs of previous leakage from joint.
Can i simply re-caulk it in place or must the entire toe rail and deck to hull bolts be removed and re-seal?

has anyone else had these problems and decided to resolve them?
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Old 27-01-2011, 13:45   #2
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Yup..... decided to remove the rubbing strake and clean out as best as possible the old sealant and apply fresh 'Sika' before re-fitting the sanded and sweet looking teak strakes...
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Old 27-01-2011, 15:37   #3
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thxs boatman61,
removing the toe/rub-rail involves me removing all the deck to hull bolts. after this is done do i need to get the sealant between the deck and the hull? this would be a major project that would possibly require me to remove the mast, stanchions, and many other items. do i understand you correctly?
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Old 27-01-2011, 16:47   #4
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On a 43ft boat such a complete dismantling job can turn out to be massive, especially if the existing joint was sealed with something as tenacious as 3m's 5200.

If it was mine, I would want to be pretty sure it is absolutely necessary to remove the complete toe rail and separate the joint. (Could be quite a bit more work than a rubbing strake).

Any chance of a photo of the hull-deck joint, showing the hairline cracks and existing sealant? That would really help you to get informed suggestions from this forum.

Martin
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Old 27-01-2011, 17:05   #5
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cracks probably not an issue will be in the gel coat,think boatman means taking out excess 5200 and recalking,with out major replacement of thru bolts etc
picture would be good though
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Old 27-01-2011, 17:10   #6
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Unless you're leaking and/or the stress cracks are severe, then you don't want this can of worms opened. There's usually quite a bit more then a few hundred stainless sheet metal screws to remove, to open the deck cap/hull shell joint enough to clean out what's there, so that the new bedding will have good contact, with a clean surface, etc., etc., etc.

Trust me, I've removed deck caps on 43' yachts and it's a whole lot more then the extruded rub rail and some screws. It has to be high enough to get in there and clean it, so driving a wedge in, squirting some goo and hoping for the best, isn't the reasonable or logical thing to do.

It would be helpful to know what, make, model and year she is and images of the worse areas (both sides if possible).
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Old 27-01-2011, 17:38   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keao View Post
thxs boatman61,
removing the toe/rub-rail involves me removing all the deck to hull bolts. after this is done do i need to get the sealant between the deck and the hull? this would be a major project that would possibly require me to remove the mast, stanchions, and many other items. do i understand you correctly?
I went thru the -remove the toe rail and re-caulking process- but I can't imagine going as far as what you're talking about. It was some years ago now, so memory of details is long gone.

The original 1973 toe rail, deck to hull caulking was... wood dough. Nothing as obnoxious as 5200.

Maybe it's just a part of the way things come out when you're trying to explain it in a sentence or two, but going as far as to remove the mast sound like you're considering lifting the deck off of the hull to get sealant in between.

My head hurts and my fingers are bleeding at the thought. If my tools could, they would be jumping overboard to save me the trouble of dropping them there.

So much of this depends on what those hairlline cracks really mean. There is such a wealth of knowledge here that I don't doubt would have the exact answer you need. But having the answer and really understanding the problem in order to give it to you......

I would want that expert pair of eyes on my boat and talking to me at lenght before I tried what you're talking about.

Having said that, you have made me realize how I may have gone about my own project the wrong way. I removed both toe rails and sent them off for hard black anodizing at an aricraft anodizing outfit. While they were off, nothing was holding my deck to my hull for about... 36 feet. Only the bow and stern were kept fast. It all worked though.

Had to borrow a mast trailer to haul to 36 ft long pieces many miles. Thanx for reviveing THAT memory.

One other point. I went to the trouble of getting an air compressor and a butterfly impact to remove all the screws. Took 2 &1/2 days for the first one. The second one was all by hand. Took 1 day. 96 screws down each side. That memnory has not escaped me.
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Old 28-01-2011, 05:46   #8
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Great story and description, Minggat.

However, I didn't quite follow when you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
One other point. I went to the trouble of getting an air compressor and a butterfly impact to remove all the screws. Took 2 &1/2 days for the first one. The second one was all by hand. Took 1 day.
Why was it quicker by bare hand than via impact driver?
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Old 28-01-2011, 06:53   #9
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Too many brain cells have passed on to remember all the troubles. But it had to do with a powerful tool and impact bits that just chewed up the slots of the screws. Keeping a hammering impact tool in a slot like that just isn't a good idea.

I have started a new religion that is all about slotted screws being of the devil. We worship phillips head screws. Can't remember what you call them in Oz. I have hunted down and killed all the sloted screws on my boat.

Point is, the sloted screws didn't like being removed that way.
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Old 28-01-2011, 07:05   #10
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Shoot.... that sounds complex mate... guess a lot of your stuff attatches to the toe rail... don't see any need to remove the mast tho'.... just lift one section of toerail at a time and clean both suface areas then prime and rebed....
Example Bene's... come in two pieces fore and aft each side... even my rubbing strake is split into two sections... do a quarter a w/end...
As for the cracks... are they the whole length or concentrated in the midships area.?
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Old 28-01-2011, 07:14   #11
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I have started a new religion that is all about slotted screws being of the devil. We worship phillips head screws. Can't remember what you call them in Oz. I have hunted down and killed all the sloted screws on my boat.
little bit of thread drift here but i couldnt agree more and ive been wondering this for a while:

why were/are slotted bolt heads soo popular for attached jib/genoa car tracks? seems that is all i see and they are way less fun to remove then phillips, i want to replace all of mine with phillips but thats allot of bolts to buy when i have perfectly good ones...
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Old 28-01-2011, 10:46   #12
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The tick of course is to change them out when you NEED to remove them for any other purpose. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Old 28-01-2011, 17:54   #13
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Here are a couple of photos that i am having questions about.

the first one shows one of multiple cracks under the flange
/Volumes/NIKON D90/DCIM/100CANON/IMG_0053.JPG

the next couple show the caulking coming out from under the toe rail.
/Volumes/NIKON D90/DCIM/100CANON/IMG_0054.JPG
/Volumes/NIKON D90/DCIM/100CANON/IMG_0056.JPG

this last one is a separate issue. They are hair line cracks on the swim step from what i guess is stress. any opinions?
/Users/jeffbursett/Desktop/untitled folder/IMG_0058.JPG
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Old 28-01-2011, 17:56   #14
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well the pic didn't work lets try that again:
hairline



caulking:



swim step
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Old 28-01-2011, 17:57   #15
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