Outrageous Prices!

[BlueWater1]

Man! $ 5,442 for just (one) Andersen SS Winch # 68 self tailing. That is outrageous I'm convinced those few manufacturers; Andersen, Harken, and Lewmar need some serious competition.

Buewater1

[cat man do]

Mate but those Andersen winches are so much better than the other's you'll have to admit.

Still hideously expensive though.

Dave

[Richhh]

It isnt a competition issue. Have you looked at the world prices of metals lately? ... all due to 'asian demand'.

[delmarrey]

The demand is not that high and that's the reason for the hi costs. How many winches’ are sold in a year? 1000, 2000??? The engineering and tooling involved
is very expensive. Try building one your self!!!!

As a Machinist I speak from experience. It would take me about 150 man hours to build one, a little less to build two and maybe half that each to build 1000. At 150 hours X $60. hr. = $9000, not including the materials. So, $5400 is a pretty good deal. As a Machinist, I would pay the $5400 and not stumble going out the door.

All Marine parts are not cheap for this same reason, "Demand". Boats are not cars run out on an assembly line. Good thing!!!! The demand for parts is only by the few builders, who buy at quantity prices, and a few boaters out there upgrading their systems.

If everyone went out and bought a new winch every 3-4 years the price would go down. But when they are built sooooo good they last 25 years, like mine, the demand is low, which makes the price high......................._/)

[S/V Elusive]

Smart guy that Delmarrey - insightful!

[David_Old_Jersey]

And that price is probably retail. Beneteau etc no doubt get them (or similar!) cheaper. and you are also paying for a retailers expenses and also profit.

I like the quote I picked up from somewhere "It appears expensive because of my Profit"

[ssullivan]

I agree with Del on this one. While I sure love to make things myself and go on at great length in other threads about it (ha ha ha), a winch is a finely built basket of metal parts. Also, they are built to such a high standard, that I've never even had to replace one - EVER.

No chance you could build one for less and have it work as well or last as long.

(enter Chinese winches!)

[jim lee]

I always wonder just how bad are "bad" winches?

I've a set of Barient winches on my machine and they have worked for.. 14 years? The only problem was that one time one locked. When I looked into it, it was just because the grease was solid from non-maitentece. Cleaned it up and away it went happy as ever.

From what I seen Barinet is gone now. So are these "bad" wenches? Are the other brands that much better? How can you tell a bad brand from a good brand?

-jim lee

[ssullivan]

To answer only part of your question: Any winch that lasts 14 years without regular maintenance is a good one in my book. I don't know of anything wrong with Barient winches.

[Boracay]

Doesn't the winch number relate to boat size?
So a #68 winch is for a 68' boat?
And the price is what % of the price of the boat?

[Pblais]

Doesn't the winch number relate to boat size?
So a #68 winch is for a 68' boat?
And the price is what % of the price of the boat?

Not quite but a #68 is a really big one for a very large jib. The #72 is actually the same size but the second gear is a bit lower. It's about 11 inches tall and the base is about 11 inches in diameter. It will handle a 10 - 18 mm sized sheet. In english 19mm is just a hair under a 3/4 inch. It's the biggest that Anderson makes. If you need larger you don't want to know the price because they become custom.

[44'cruisingcat]

On some (most?) brands the number relates to the reduction ratio of the winch. A #68 gives you a 68 :1 mechanical advantage. (Low range if it's a 2 speed winch) Try here :

ARCO winches main page

These might be better priced. (But probably not quite as nice a unit as an Anderson)

[hellosailor]

And here I thought Andersen *was* the new player that came into the market underpricing everyone else.

[BlueWater1]

There is several style of markering a product. The most common is the one we all already know: one exact product is cheaper than the other just a different name and a different manufacture. The second strategy is to convince or to prove the consumers the advantage of paying a premium for a specific product. The reason for this 10% or 15% premium is because the product may offer a direct advantage over the other.

The truth is that those organizations are monopolizing the industry and I dont really care how cute do you put it; 150 hours of labor (not true at all), engineering effort, stainless steel, we work hard for you, and more and more cheap market strategy. The fact is the one that loses is (us) the consumer.
Competition forces a company not only to strive for exellence, but also to change their marketing vision and eventually prices will go down and it is NOT based only on demand and supply. It is also about competitiveness and the quality of the final product.

If you are the owner of the only bicycle shop in a town, let's say with a population of 20,000 people, for sure you are going to monopolize the industry. I see it happen all the time. However, as soon as bicycle shops start opening withing 20-25 miles of that city prices start to decline immediatelly.

The poor reason for their ridiculous price is " our engineering team works countless hours to give you the best possible product" "we make this product out of Stainless Steel 306 to make it tough is all weather conditions"

OH woow!!! tough in all weather conditions? Well, I hope so is going to be mounted on a sailboat. Dont you think that should be standard? OH woow is made of Stainless Steel. Really? Well, I work with Stainless Steel, brass, titanium, aluminum T-6061, 7075, and several types of plastic every single day of my life and ours engineers work hard to provide fast turn around at a afforable prices. We even hold tolerances +/- .0001. I dont tell my my customers this "this is made of Stainless Steel therefore you have to pay me for this Hydraulic Valve for your dental chair $ 2,5000.

Unfortunately that is not going to cut it for me. As a business major and a CNC machine shop owner with many years of experience I'm convinced that product is way over priced and big time. No one can argue the fact. The fact is that America start with an (A) and that is unarguable.

Bluewater1

[hellosailor]

Bluewater-
Marketing is a whole other issue. Take shampoos, for instance. In the high end shampoo business (all the big brand names) the BOTTLE actually costs more than the contents do, because of the printing processes (multiple silk screens and overprints) they use. But, the bottle is what sells the product.
And some folks pay for the confidence of the Purina dog chow name, while Purina manufactures dog chow for supermarkets and other vendors, in the same plant, on the same line. Are the specs the same? You'll never know unless you send it out to a lab, because that's confidential.

Bottom line is that if you are SURE that winches are overpriced, and that someone can order a DIY winch part set, or that you can assemble and sell winches at even 1/3 less than market...You'd stand to make some good money putting them on the market. I suspect that the castings, the inventory, the distribution, and all the costs that go beyond the actual cost of the parts, may eat up the profits for you. But I'd love to be wrong about that, and be able to buy winches at 1/2 price from you instead. Even if there was "some assembly required" and a lag time.