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Old 03-02-2007, 23:44   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWater1
Unfortunately that is not going to cut it for me. As a business major and a CNC machine shop owner with many years of experience I'm convinced that product is way over priced and big time. No one can argue the fact. The fact is that America start with an (A) and that is unarguable.

Bluewater1
Well then, How about you make some for us and let's see what it really costs.

Have the pattern made for the base and drum. Have it casted, set up the jig, do the programing and then machining. Turn and mill the gears. Make the shafts. Make the bearings. And if it's self tailing you have all that stuff on top to make too. Don't forget, this is all stainless the best material in the world to machine, NOT! And why not make 100 of them so we can all get a pair cheap.

If you can make them for less then $4000 each then you can put them on the market and make the big bucks. That's if you can find buyer's.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:15   #17
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I'll take 2 X #60, and 2 X #45 and 2 X#40 for a start!
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:17   #18
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Originally Posted by jim lee
From what I seen Barinet is gone now. So are these "bad" wenches? Are the other brands that much better? How can you tell a bad brand from a good brand?

-jim lee
I've had some bad wenches before




Something in here about Andersen knockoff's

[MHml] Chinese Trimaran

We also found out that he copied the hardware we had
>sent him to use on the boats he was to build for us. I expressed my
>dismay and I insisted that he use the supplied authentic hardware.
>He even was trying to make copies of the Andersen winches I had
>shipped to him.

Dave
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Old 04-02-2007, 06:28   #19
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Scary stuff, Cat man do. Wow. No long political rants here, but I just don't understand how those Chinese business people can put out such grossly inferior products. Well, it'll bite them in the *ss in the long run. I strive to not buy anything from that country, even though that's virtually impossible in the States.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:04   #20
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I've got a couple of old lewmar primaries on mine that I cleaned and they work well but they are not self tailing. I understand there are rubber/plastic stretch on/snap on gadgets that will make them into self tailers. I'm spending so much on everthing else - 20k last year - to upgrade the boat and systems that I'd like to hold off replacing them for a while

Has anyone had any experience with these add-ons?
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Old 04-02-2007, 13:30   #21
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Now -IF- the winches are overpriced and there -is- a market opening..

That would be a fun project, design and market a new brand of winches. But how to capture the market? Could they be made better? Or just cheaper?

I've a NZ buddy that gets me quotes for NC machining in NZ way cheaper than here in the US. So there's a good place for the NC stuff.. How about a design?

----

Also, what's the big deal with self tailers? We don't have them on our primaries and never missed them. We do have them on the halyard winches but I doub't we'd really miss them if they were gone.

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Old 05-02-2007, 00:29   #22
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eBay Australia: 2 self tailing yacht winches,sail, sheet, boat, halyard (item 300076892362, end time 11-Feb-07 20:02:46 AEDST)

heres a start on some 57 self tailers
sean
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:49   #23
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Has anyone had any experience with these add-ons?__________________
Yep, they are made right here where I live. I have them on some of my winches. The are not self tailing, just tailing. Good to simply lock off the rope
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Also, what's the big deal with self tailers?
Essential if you are on your own. I don't have self tailers and have to tail and winch and it is slow and difficult. Epescially if one hand is one the wheel and the other is trying to sheet in.

Now this is what I don't get, why on earth has someone not made a retro fit self tailing device. I have thought of trying it myself. I so far have not seen a major concern, I just need to get it done.
Del!! how bout you. You have more gear available than me. That could be a world leading product I reckon. I would certainly buy them........if you don't make to much mark up on them ;-)
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:47   #24
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The ebay winches are from Arco. I like them better than the Anderson. I bought 3 new ones from them for my halyards.
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Old 05-02-2007, 13:02   #25
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Competition forces a company not only to strive for exellence, but also to change their marketing vision and eventually prices will go down and it is NOT based only on demand and supply.
No one is getting really rich selling winches. If they were others would help them split the pie. Anderson is the first to make the attempt at a time when most of the marine industry is eating all the competition. Compare their prices to Harken and Lewmar. Now name the next biggest vendors you ever heard of still in business.

If the world demanded 2 million large winches a year it might happen. If you look at the number of larger boats fitted each year the demand is pretty small so the few vendors get all the pie. Winches take machining to manufacture not just castings, gears are cut to precision, the materials are not commonly used by any other industry, and the retail markup is quite large so a retailer might consider stocking them.

Quote:
Now this is what I don't get, why on earth has someone not made a retro fit self tailing device.
I've seen them and they are pretty bad. You can see them advertised. Maybe OK for a small boat in the 22 - 24 ft size range. Any larger than that and they don't work very well. For the stripper to work it needs to take a good sized load. It's not easy to make that as an add on.
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Old 05-02-2007, 14:48   #26
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how bout that

Now try and imagine how much the owner of say Maribella pays for his winches. Or any other sailboat with 295 foot masts! The bigger the boat, the more expensive the hardware. What you mention is one of the main reason I chose to purchase and sail a Cape dory 25D. I put two of Andersen's smallest self-tailers on Seraph for $1k and live for a month or so on the difference. I'm just glad that I can find happiness in 25 feet. I know most folks can't. Long live the pocket cruiser.
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Old 05-02-2007, 14:56   #27
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The winches on my boat are well over 20 years old. I have verified with the original owner that these are the ones fitted when the boat was built/launched in 1985/85. The winches are Maxwell 24s and 28s, 2-speed self-tailing. Each winch is made up of over 50 parts. Most of those parts are machined. All the winches work very well. Under the circumstances, I think that these winches are not such bad value for money. I have begun the maintenance cycle that will see each winch stripped, cleaned and re-greased at least every 2 years. I see no reason why these winches cannot last another 20 years.
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Old 05-02-2007, 16:09   #28
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Originally Posted by dkall
The ebay winches are from Arco. I like them better than the Anderson. I bought 3 new ones from them for my halyards.

I am stunned,

Andersen's were the best bit of jewellry on the last cat we had, I actually brought them for Caro for her Birthday.

They never ate the case of halyards like my Lewmar's , very poor quality IMHO, and spun freely , almost frictionless for 3 years before I decided to service them for the hell of it.

These thing's regularly had salt water washing around them.

Weyalan, those Maxwells would definetly be my second choice for winches, that rib they have like the Andersen is very kind on ropes, and seem's to give them much better holding power eg: less wrap's for same load.


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Old 05-02-2007, 16:22   #29
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We've got Arco's on our present boat. They are good, solid winches, and about 1/2 the price of Andersen.

( ARCO Sheet Winch Price List ---January 19th 2004-- )

OK, Andersens won't wear the sheets and halyards out, but we've had ours for 7 years and the sheets are only now getting a bit worn - I can handle replacing some cordage every few years if I'm getting my winches at 1/2 price!
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Old 05-02-2007, 16:38   #30
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Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the Arco's, they represent excellent value for money, and are the sort of robust design that'll last a lifetime and then some.

Our Andersen's were only 28"s and i've never been a fan of self tailer's so the dollar difference VS weight saving for us was good.

On a larger winch x lot's I may have to rethink the dollars i'd agree.

Part of the reasoning on a stink boat this time around

Looking at that price list those 56ST's are pretty cheap

Dave

PS: every time I cranked the main up on the 30 footer useing Lewmars we had Blue fibres on the drum, we were forever stiching new cases onto that area.
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