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Old 02-12-2014, 15:35   #1
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Osmosis repair, what to expect

Before posting this I stumbled upon "The Yard Guys" post. Something that stuck was:

"Never, ever, ever, ever leave your boat to have work done without being around...."

FP for sale but the owner says the yard discovered some slight beginnings of osmosis. Owner says he contacted FP and they are covering the expense but a local yard will repair the bottom. Owner says it will be a complete bottom job with epoxy finish that will be "better than new".

Questions:
How likely is it that boat will be "better than new"?

Is this a job any local decent yard can preform? (asking due to the above mentioned prior post).

Can the owner expect top dollar after this for the boat?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-12-2014, 16:01   #2
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Its the blisters above or below the waterline?
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Old 02-12-2014, 16:02   #3
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Are you going to be nearby? I would want to see at least certain phases of repair. Stop work until you approve to move forward. Maybe:
View the bottom/work after all sanding and stripping and gouging. (test moisture)
Approve go ahead when moisture level is adequate.
View the bottom when filled and ready for barrier coat.


When you think about it, what incentive does the yard have to do it right?
The new owner wont see it.
It will look good when he takes it.
It wont be warranteed except to the current owner.


A lot of temptation to do a quick and dirty job that looks fine when launched.... and make a pile of money charging for the "full meal deal".
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Old 02-12-2014, 16:54   #4
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

In general, I agree - never expect work as good as you would do or expect to have done. Especially, shopping on price alone is a near guarantee for the opportunity to do it over. That said, our yard here does excellent work (Torresen in Muskegon Michigan). They have the pest reputation in west Michigan for exterior painting. They do Awl Grip in a headed pole building and bake it in. They do all forms of engine, electronics, vessel repair.

I watched a peel job on a blistered boat. They used a power peeler, let it rest all winter and applied several layers of West in the spring. They stand by their work.

All jobs I have hired other than by them have had to be re-done by me.

A reputable yard with a good reputation that guarantees their work should be OK to trust. Get a good understanding of what will be done, in writing. Build a relationship with the yard and they will want you to come back.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:58   #5
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

This is exactly why--whether buying a house, a car, or a boat--I do NOT want the owner to make repairs as a contingency of the sale. Rather, I want the price knocked down so that I can do the repairs (and make sure they're done right!) after the purchase is complete.

Good luck, whatever you do.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:11   #6
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

you will find the yard will have skinned boat and applied barrier coat.
very pricey fix.
most blisters are over rated. dry bumps that do not affect the performance of your boat.
i repaired only the tunnelling ones, blister by blister and applied barrier coat for a total of under 1800 usd. worked until after i sold boat, many years later.
you leave the boat in a yard without being there to supervise, you get what the yard does, not what you want.
at baja naval, one boat owner found the resultant pricing to be 40,000 usd which was about 30k over the estimated price for repair, and boat was lost to yard. fun ... never leave a boat in ayard to be "fixed" without stating in writing and with a contract EXACTLY that which you desire done.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:26   #7
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

A proper job will include peeling and having the boat drying out on the hard for as long as it takes to get the moisture content down, before fairing and barrier coating.
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Old 03-12-2014, 17:55   #8
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

What Tera Nova said and also,
"Never, ever, ever, ever leave your boat to have work done without being around...."
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Old 03-12-2014, 20:12   #9
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

One of my closest sailin friends is a 20 year circumnavigator. He and his wife pulled their downeaster out at the same time as our CR a few months ago. I asked him how long he was planning on being on the hard and he answered "we only have about a 100 blisters this time, so about two weeks".

My jaw hit the floor.

Sure enough, they used a grinder and ground down their 36 year old boats bottom only where the blisters lay, let them sit for a few days then filled them in lickity split, painted with barrier coat and new bottom paint and they were down in Miami before I could even get my jaw off the dirt. All by themselves and they weigh maybe 200 pounds between them.

Basically, he explained to me that 99% of blisters are just cosmetic and he never bothers to go through the blister repair. I've heard the same from a lot of people.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:00   #10
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Basically, he explained to me that 99% of blisters are just cosmetic...
That's true, but of course the trick is being able to recognize the other 1%.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:09   #11
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
That's true, but of course the trick is being able to recognize the other 1%.



So not true. Blisters are a symptom of a disease, osmosis. A later symptom of the same disease in its more advanced stage is hydrolysis. Any boat with osmosis and salt water saturation will eventually hydrolize if the process is not stopped. This will lead to delamination. Might take 50 years, but leaving a boat saturated long term is a death sentence.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:22   #12
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
So not true. Blisters are a symptom of a disease, osmosis. A later symptom of the same disease in its more advanced stage is hydrolysis. Any boat with osmosis and salt water saturation will eventually hydrolize if the process is not stopped. This will lead to delamination. Might take 50 years, but leaving a boat saturated long term is a death sentence.
That's the key phrase. My boat builder friend tells me that even a spongy deck unless with a deck stepped mast will outlive it's owner even if he/she does nothing to remedy it. And as far as blisters go he also points out that it's the hull cored boats which have to worry most. If yours is solid to the waterline or higher AND was otherwise well made to begin with the blisters are more of a cosmetic nuisance than structural problem. Of course "blisters and well made" should not be in the same sentence but still things happen even to the best of products.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:35   #13
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

First as usual, I have to say Minaret is 100% correct. Blisters are like cancer. They may be slow growing and take 50 years to kill your boat or they could be seriously malignant and do the job in 5 years. But they will get worse over time, no matter what.

Regarding a yard repair without owner supervision, I wouldn't say never, ever, ever but I would say that 99.9% of the time the job will be done better and/or faster and more cheaply with someone there to monitor the job. So, personally I would never, ever leave a yard to do a complex job without me present (except maybe Minaret ).

Done properly the boat should be as good as if not better than new. Will it gain or lose value? Tough question. If a very new boat then any question about a blister problem would likely have a negative impact on the perceived value. On an older boat, some level of blistering is almost the norm and a well done blister repair will probably enhance the value.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:52   #14
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

There probably is a FP owner's group around, or at least several on this forum have had FP blister problems which were covered by FP (it was a wide-ranging problem for a time). I suggest asking them about specific details. It is possible that FP OK's the yard and provides them with specific and detailed instructions on what is to be done and how it is done. If so, and your alarm bells don't ring when talking to the yard people, then you will be just fine letting them do the work.

I would want to see FP's specific response to the owner, along with any other communications, instructions or recommendations involving FP. I would also like to see the yard estimate, work order, and actual bill at the end. Just to make sure that all was on the up and up, and not a collusion to sell a boat.

BTW, having this work done under FP blessing has increased the value of those boats on the market - not decreased it. The blistering was well-known and even the potential for it was driving prices down on those models.

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Old 04-12-2014, 10:03   #15
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Re: Osmosis repair, what to expect

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
There probably is a FP owner's group around, or at least several on this forum have had FP blister problems which were covered by FP (it was a wide-ranging problem for a time). I suggest asking them about specific details. It is possible that FP OK's the yard and provides them with specific and detailed instructions on what is to be done and how it is done. If so, and your alarm bells don't ring when talking to the yard people, then you will be just fine letting them do the work.

I would want to see FP's specific response to the owner, along with any other communications, instructions or recommendations involving FP. I would also like to see the yard estimate, work order, and actual bill at the end. Just to make sure that all was on the up and up, and not a collusion to sell a boat.

BTW, having this work done under FP blessing has increased the value of those boats on the market - not decreased it. The blistering was well-known and even the potential for it was driving prices down on those models.

Mark




Except that FP generally only covers blisters below the waterline, and many of their boats blister everywhere.
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