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Old 17-07-2017, 08:35   #16
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

Congratulations on an awesome gift and a beautiful refit. I wish you many happy and safe years on the water.

Ken
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Old 18-07-2017, 14:56   #17
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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Sweet (re)build, & quite the choice gift to receive!
No kidding! My wife Lisa never ceases to amaze me, even after 30 years!

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I'm looking forward to hearing more, including your reports of her handling under sail. If, that is, your computer doesn't short out from your drooling on the keyboard when reliving said sailing experiences

BTW, how weight sensitive are they up front?
Its a very fine bow. Just walking to the bow puts an easily observable bow down trim. And the videos and pictures online, and some of the stories I have been told, indicate the boat is a submarine at speed. This all means keeping weight out of the bow is important.

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And was it difficult to get the alignment right between your bow roller & the windlass so that the chain feeds well?
We should have the roller and sprit connection welded up this week, or early next (lots of things going on).

But getting the alignment right, in this case, is not really hard. The angle from the bow roller, alongside the forestay fitting, to the windlass just outboard of the starboard aft corner of the foredeck hatch, is easy to measure and then replicate: X= how far to the side, Y= how far aft from the roller, so X/Y is the cosine, so arcsin(X/Y) is the angle. Or, just use that ratio -- that is what I actually did.

The complicated bit is keeping the anchor on the roller from interfering with the bowsprit. For example, I bought but had to return a Rocna, because the roll bar completely interfered with the sprit. So I went with Lewmar Bruce anchors, that work just as well. (ooops, I'm not trying to start an anchor religion war).

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I'd be curious to see some pics of the windlass mount if you'd be so kind. And or a description of same. As I too am a fan of pulling the chain out of the bow, but it's tricky to do on anything but a flush decked boat. So any tricks or tips you could pass on would help.
The windlass is a Lewmar 700 vertical axis windlass. It was mounted on the deck just inboard of the aft starboard stanchion of the bow pulpit. The meant using a winch handle to raise the anchor was impractical, and that plenty of water got below.

That windlass is plenty strong enough, especially if I can actually use a winch handle easily to raise the anchor or at least break free of the bottom. By moving the windlass aft, so its on the deck house (maybe only 6" high at this point, but that is still much better than flat on the deck), then I can actually get some strength to the winch handle when necessary, and keep grinding all the way up if the windlass motor fails.

The deck is a wedge deck, but that should not matter much. In fact, there are some advantages to having the chain well clear of the deck by having the chain lead from the anchor roller to the top of a cabin trunk -- less drag.

I will make a canvas "runway" for the chain, between the bow roller and the windlass. Having 12 or so feet of chain on this runway makes it easier to scrub the chain as it comes up, so most of the grunge will be removed before the chain gets into the chain locker.
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Old 18-07-2017, 16:09   #18
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

Good to know, thanks! So what'll the gift for the Mrs. be now? Not to spoil the surprise.


PS: You know that there are non-roll bar new gen anchors, such as the Rocna Vulcan, & the Spade, right?
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Old 18-07-2017, 16:23   #19
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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Good to know, thanks! So what'll the gift for the Mrs. be now? Not to spoil the surprise.
OOohh, let's see... how about a full set of carbon sails? (If she seems disappointed, you could point out that they are at least partly chemically identical to a diamond (and price wise, too)).

Jim
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Old 18-07-2017, 17:14   #20
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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OOohh, let's see... how about a full set of carbon sails? (If she seems disappointed, you could point out that they are at least partly chemically identical to a diamond (and price wise, too)).

Jim
You are on to something! We've got a carbon GPL radial main, and perhaps the upwind sails will match. We will see the sail proposals within a few days.
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Old 25-07-2017, 11:52   #21
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

I just got the proposal for cruising 3di dacron headsails. Very reasonable price!
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Old 25-07-2017, 13:37   #22
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

I just realized I forgot to reply. Yes, the Olson 40 (and 30) really like to go U-boat downwind in a blow with a conventional kite. In fact they'll snuggle down in smooth water (e.g. inside Long Beach breakwall) with water rolling over the bow and sail happily. Weight aft is important. I'd keep the ground tackle as light as you can stomach it. Your theory on the asym is interesting and makes sense. I'll be curious to hear how that works out.

Otherwise they don't really have any bad habits other than rudder stall if really pressed hard downwind, and like I said a lot of owners put larger rudders on them for offshore races. If you don't press the boat so hard it should be fine. Are you sticking with a tiller? If so, be prepared for a workout. I've never seen a wheel on one, but I don't know why you couldn't do it.

FYI, upwind usually they don't reward pinching at all - press and keep the boat pressed. However with that keel if you use the stock rig I'd think you could get really good upwind performance sticking with larger jibs than if you trade down to smaller jibs early, and probably keep the boat better balanced.
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:22   #23
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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I just realized I forgot to reply. Yes, the Olson 40 (and 30) really like to go U-boat downwind in a blow with a conventional kite. In fact they'll snuggle down in smooth water (e.g. inside Long Beach breakwall) with water rolling over the bow and sail happily. Weight aft is important. I'd keep the ground tackle as light as you can stomach it. Your theory on the asym is interesting and makes sense. I'll be curious to hear how that works out.
Thanks for that insight. I am looking forward to experimenting with sprit length. Since nobody has ever done this to an Olson 40, we will have to run experiments to learn what works, when. Being able to easily change the sprit geometry is the reason we are going with a pole that is supported by dyneema lines -- so we can easily make it shorter (or longer!), higher or lower, tack moved in or out, even articulating to windward perhaps. I am hoping we don't need to articulate, but if we do, we do. Learning is fun!
Quote:
Otherwise they don't really have any bad habits other than rudder stall if really pressed hard downwind, and like I said a lot of owners put larger rudders on them for offshore races. If you don't press the boat so hard it should be fine. Are you sticking with a tiller? If so, be prepared for a workout. I've never seen a wheel on one, but I don't know why you couldn't do it.
We changed the rudder to a very sweet X38 rudder -- deep, elliptical, excellent shape and light balance.

A tiller is much, much nicer at anchor -- lift it up and its out of the way.

Enroute on a passage, the autopilot will be steering most of the time.

I am expecting the helm to be pretty light, so I am hoping it will be less of a workout. But we will see. At least, because we will be cruising and not racing, if there is a lot of helm we can do something about it even if we are a tiny bit off the ultimate target speed.
Quote:
FYI, upwind usually they don't reward pinching at all - press and keep the boat pressed. However with that keel if you use the stock rig I'd think you could get really good upwind performance sticking with larger jibs than if you trade down to smaller jibs early, and probably keep the boat better balanced.
I hope the non-overlapping headsails will not be annoying in light air. The sail wardrobe will be something like this:

Main: Standard size, short batten, radial cut by Elliott-Pattison. The cloth is DP GPL 14 and 10l, with lots of carbon.

Racing Laminates - Sailcloth Technology by DIMENSION-POLYANT - Sailcloth and laminates for high performance sailing and polyestersailcloth for surf
http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/...L_GraphX_E.pdf

Trysl: Dacron and a bit larger than a standard trysl, as I'll actually use it instead of deep reefing the main. We might never reef the main! That carbon main is too sweet to destroy in heavy air. The time I expect to use the trysl is the beat from Panama to the Caribbean islands. A trysl is perfect for the big, steep seas and consistent heavy air of that long beat.

Lapper: A non-overlapping, but almost touching the forward edge of the spreaders, with the clew about 5 feet off the deck. We will sheet to the rail, and use barber haulers on the front of the mast about same level as the clew, so it pulls straight in. The long distance from clew to block on the rail makes the load on the barber hauler easier. This sail might be North dacron 3di or DP GPL GraphX like the main. Hanks on fixed dyneema headstay.

Staysl aka storm heads'l. Same material as the Lapper, also just forward of the spreaders with a high clew, for the same barber hauling reasons as the lapper. Also used for barely cracked off to reaching double head sailing with the Lapper. Hanks on removable dyneema inner forestay.

Screecher, tacked somewhere from stem head out to the middle of the sprit. This can be a light air upwind sail when the lapper is not enough juice. The geometry allows the sail to be tacked anywhere on the sprit: perhaps close to the stem if we are beating, and slide the tack forward as the wind builds and we crack off further. Also a heavy air downwind sail. Flown from a top down furler. Maintaining luff tension is important.

Code zero (really big screecher), tacked to the end of the pole. Never an upwind sail, perhaps 600 AirX. Also flown on a top down furler.

So I think we won't have big holes in performance, so it stays fun all the time.

The areas of the sails are going to be about:

Staysail 173 sq. ft.
Jib 337 sq. ft. so an addition of 95% over the staysl.
Screacher (mid pole) with a LP of 20 = 540 sq. ft. an addition of 60%
Code Zero (end of pole) with a LP or 29 and a mid girth of 70% = 1157 sq. ft. an addition of 115%
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:27   #24
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

That outer screecher might end up being a normal asymmetrical chute.
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Old 25-07-2017, 16:58   #25
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

The new rudder ought to really change the characteristics, perhaps more than that keel. The stock rudder was not terribly well balanced (in addition to stalling fairly easily) which is part of what made the helm so heavy off the wind. Assuming the new one is more balanced that should really help preserve both your arm and the autopilot drive. I'd worry the original rudder would be an autopilot killer downwind in a breeze. I agree about the tiller at anchor - it's not a huge cockpit to begin with and a wheel would eat a bunch of it. Do a below deck autopilot and it should be a clean setup.

That's a really interesting sailplan, really one I've never seen before with the lapper as the primary upwind sail (other than a staysail). I think it'll work though. I've done some miles in an Olson 40 with a jib-top reacher (basically a 155% deep cut with a high clew, build for 40-70 apparent) and a reaching asymmetric and the boat did great with those sails. I'd worry you won't be able to point in under, say, 15 true with that sail selection, but once you get done loading up the boat I'm not sure it'll make a difference. Offwind that sailplan should work fine.

Two thoughts: I'd keep the tanks as reasonably far aft as possible. You don't want to overload the stern, but it'll be happier if you keep the weight after of centerline. And second, from what I saw they could get squirrely if you overload the boat too much in general. I'd be more careful than the average cruiser in what you bring for the trip south. Definitely plan to use/abuse a watermaker to keep from having to carry too much water weight.
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Old 25-07-2017, 17:19   #26
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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The new rudder ought to really change the characteristics, perhaps more than that keel. The stock rudder was not terribly well balanced (in addition to stalling fairly easily) which is part of what made the helm so heavy off the wind. Assuming the new one is more balanced that should really help preserve both your arm and the autopilot drive. I'd worry the original rudder would be an autopilot killer downwind in a breeze. I agree about the tiller at anchor - it's not a huge cockpit to begin with and a wheel would eat a bunch of it. Do a below deck autopilot and it should be a clean setup.
I've got an underdeck Octopus drive, which is a really good, efficient drive. I will write the autopilot to control using that drive, using a Raspberry Pi.

I'm also getting an off-the-shelf autopilot that will also mount under deck using the same big strong aluminum structure where the Octopus drive is mounted.
Quote:
That's a really interesting sailplan, really one I've never seen before with the lapper as the primary upwind sail (other than a staysail). I think it'll work though. I've done some miles in an Olson 40 with a jib-top reacher (basically a 155% deep cut with a high clew, build for 40-70 apparent) and a reaching asymmetric and the boat did great with those sails. I'd worry you won't be able to point in under, say, 15 true with that sail selection, but once you get done loading up the boat I'm not sure it'll make a difference. Offwind that sailplan should work fine.

Two thoughts: I'd keep the tanks as reasonably far aft as possible. You don't want to overload the stern, but it'll be happier if you keep the weight after of centerline. And second, from what I saw they could get squirrely if you overload the boat too much in general. I'd be more careful than the average cruiser in what you bring for the trip south. Definitely plan to use/abuse a watermaker to keep from having to carry too much water weight.
Thanks for those insights! Its so important to hear experiences.
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Old 18-06-2018, 13:39   #27
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

We are getting close to launch! Wednesday or Thursday this week... ????

Photos soon -- got to clean her up a bit for her photo shoot!
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Old 18-06-2018, 14:22   #28
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Re: Olson 40 Refit at Finco Fabrication

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We are getting close to launch! Wednesday or Thursday this week... ????

Photos soon -- got to clean her up a bit for her photo shoot!
Hooray!!! Don't forget the champers, and enjoy the day and the first sail.

Jim
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