Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-10-2019, 05:28   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 5,739
Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Why do so many folks that buy an old boat change out the seacocks first? (besides the fact that a bad one can sink the boat)

I mean if they are not leaking and are in tight etc

I have 6 thruhulls with seacocks on my 45 year old boat that are all closed. They don't leak...Ö.at all.

The two for the cockpit have new (15 year old) hoses attached
__________________

thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 06:00   #2
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 4,605
Images: 84
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Ask a question, answer a question.

Some old sea cocks might have inter granular corrosion. Itís hard to see. You can lean on them according to ABYC testing standards or replace them.

Valves such as Groco are made of a well engineered bronze with low zinc content and more copper. Some years ago European standards were relaxed on the metallurgy. Some builders then used less expensive valves designed to a specified life span. Personally, I canít think of a dumber place to save fifty cents.

You can certainly choose to remove, disassemble, inspect and service sea cocks. If you can get them out intact that is. There is no reason a skilled mechanic canít clean them up and install new gaskets.

Many people are replacing metal valves with plastic. Marelon is the trade name. Here is a link. Find theses easily on line or at most chandlers. https://www.forespar.com/marelon-mar...plumbing.shtml

Another less known supplier is Banjo. Banjo Valves and Fittings - Alsco Industrial Products, Inc.

The advantage of plastic valves is that they donít tend to freeze up and they donít corrode.
__________________

Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 06:00   #3
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 12,206
Images: 14
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I have 6 thruhulls with seacocks on my 45 year old boat that are all closed. They don't leak...Ö.at all.
I checked the galley sink seacock last weekend. Valve closed as expected but took it apart anyway. Even with the handle fully closed the ball valve inside didn't and left a little gap. This wasn't visible from the exterior. Another trip to the chandlers to contribute to his pension fund.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 06:46   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 5,739
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Thinking about it, I have 7 thruhulls.

Two for the cockpit drains with hoses.

One has a plug.

Pictures give an idea of the others.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Forward Port Seacock.jpg
Views:	198
Size:	366.0 KB
ID:	201584   Click image for larger version

Name:	thruhull plug.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	357.2 KB
ID:	201585  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Head seacock.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	351.6 KB
ID:	201586  
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 07:12   #5
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 4,605
Images: 84
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

I have several on Our 1984 boat. One finally froze to the point of No Way am I moving. I had to cut it out using a carbide die grinder. You can see where I cut the flange off. The threaded through hull is replaceable. The little pipe plug on the side is for a grease nipple. Installers NEVER include these. I am considering a rebuild or at least a curiosity inspection.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	752E0DFA-FDAC-43C5-9CCF-8C20B4B99FCF.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	440.9 KB
ID:	201590   Click image for larger version

Name:	3917C8D2-D80D-4EFF-A5EA-0731659758C4.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	453.2 KB
ID:	201591  

Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 07:22   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 7,429
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Weíve owned our old boat for 10 years.
I replaced all of the 3/4Ē tapered plug valves 8 years ago, as most of them were neglected beyond reasonable repair.

Two weeks ago I finally replaced the 1.5Ē tapered plug valves because Iíve got better things to do with my life than lap old plug valves.

Old
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3564.jpg
Views:	195
Size:	418.6 KB
ID:	201592

New
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3850.jpg
Views:	199
Size:	411.8 KB
ID:	201593
Sailmonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 07:37   #7
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 4,605
Images: 84
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Tapered cocks are trouble. Grease pumped in regularly floats the plug. Neglect let’s the grease out and the metal to metal becomes near permanent. Over 40 years om machinery design and build, I avoided tapered plugs like plague. Ball cocks typically have Teflon or other seal material suspending the ball. The ball and stem are Stainless. The body is bronze. Grease is pumped into the cavity between the two ball seals. These remain reliably movable for a long time.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 07:44   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,538
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

I'll through in my own thoughts here:

With good bronze seacocks on a well maintained boat, there is no reason to "change them first".

Boats of that age frequently had gate valves as seacocks. They should be thrown away sooner than later. They were a bad idea then, and have no place on a proper yacht.

If they are stainless steel, replace them. The kinds of failures that SS can have can not be easily seen without extensive testing.

If they are bronze, and can can be disassembled, they will in all likelihood be fine. a bit of elbow grease and they will shine like new. The problem is that if they have been ignored for 45 years they might be frozen together. I have taken apart ones that were 40 years old, and it took a big wrench (3 feet long!) to get the pipe threads apart, but apart they did come. They last--essentially--forever.

Bronze can LOOK really grungy when covered with surface corrosion, all green and horrible. But, it is just on the surface. The only real danger to them is electrical problems that result in galvanic or stray current corrosion. This is easy seen as friable copper colored parts that are very fragile mechanically. If there is any trace of this, it is unlikely you will get them apart in one piece, and that matters not because they would be toast anyway.

In short, if you can get bronze parts apart, they will clean up nicely and be good for another 45 years.
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 11:24   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 5,739
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
I'll through in my own thoughts here:

With good bronze seacocks on a well maintained boat, there is no reason to "change them first".

Boats of that age frequently had gate valves as seacocks. They should be thrown away sooner than later. They were a bad idea then, and have no place on a proper yacht.

If they are stainless steel, replace them. The kinds of failures that SS can have can not be easily seen without extensive testing.

If they are bronze, and can can be disassembled, they will in all likelihood be fine. a bit of elbow grease and they will shine like new. The problem is that if they have been ignored for 45 years they might be frozen together. I have taken apart ones that were 40 years old, and it took a big wrench (3 feet long!) to get the pipe threads apart, but apart they did come. They last--essentially--forever.

Bronze can LOOK really grungy when covered with surface corrosion, all green and horrible. But, it is just on the surface. The only real danger to them is electrical problems that result in galvanic or stray current corrosion. This is easy seen as friable copper colored parts that are very fragile mechanically. If there is any trace of this, it is unlikely you will get them apart in one piece, and that matters not because they would be toast anyway.

In short, if you can get bronze parts apart, they will clean up nicely and be good for another 45 years.
Mine appear to be bronze seacocks. There's also one ball valve type that was for the raw water intake.

I had them all open in 2011, but have since closed them because I don't used them. They are tight and do not leak.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Head seacock.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	351.6 KB
ID:	201602   Click image for larger version

Name:	Forward Port Seacock.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	366.0 KB
ID:	201603  

thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 11:45   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: St. John, USVI
Boat: 2003 Beneteau 423
Posts: 332
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

We bought our 16 year old Beneteau and all of the original seacocks were brass. The one engine seacock that had been replaced was bronze. So, we replaced all of the brass seacocks with bronze. Just want to keep the water on the outside of the boat.

Cheers, RickG
__________________
RickG & Sweet Christine
S/V Echoes - 2003 Beneteau 423
St. John, USVI - hauled out Fajardo, PR for hurricane season, splashing October 21
RickG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 12:03   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 47
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

In short, if you can get bronze parts apart, they will clean up nicely and be good for another 45 years.[/QUOTE]

Looking at the valves in my recently acquired 1972 Cheoy Lee they are apparently original bronze. They don't look to be in bad shape but they are frozen. I plan to have them all re-conditioned at the first opportunity before any sailing trips.
I would think if they lasted for 47 years they are worth trying to keep.
Poche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 12:27   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 54
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Why do so many folks that buy an old boat change out the seacocks first? (besides the fact that a bad one can sink the boat)

I mean if they are not leaking and are in tight etc

I have 6 thruhulls with seacocks on my 45 year old boat that are all closed. They don't leak...….at all.

The two for the cockpit have new (15 year old) hoses attached
Why do *so many* of your posts follow the format "Why do other people do XXX when they could be doing what I do?"

Anyways, in case this question was posted for more than just gratuitously declaring superiority over nameless inferior masses, I'll give my answer: I don't have X-ray vision, so I like the sense of security I feel from replacing an old underwater metal with a condition and a history that's unknown to me.

Looks like you've got beefy bronze tapered cone seacocks without any pink corrosion so they are probably in good shape.. But I've heard 2nd hand (3rd hand? fictional?) accounts of good looking old seacocks coming off in people's hands so I'd rather play it safe if I've got the time / money. At least give them some good hard whacks when its safe to do so.
SwellGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 12:46   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 5,739
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
Why do so many of your posts follow the format "Why do other people do XXX when they could be doing what I do?"

Anyways, in case this question was posted for more than just gratuitously declaring superiority over nameless inferior masses, I'll give my answer: I don't have X-ray vision, so I like the sense of security I feel from replacing an old underwater metal with a condition and a history that's unknown to me.
I'd say I'm trying to indicate that I don't get the reasoning behind it.

And that by stating what I do I'm hoping those that respond can give me a good answer while also maybe telling me what is incorrect in my way of doing things

I'd surely not replace them on a boat I just purchased if they looked good unless I was planning to cross an ocean or be spending long periods of time 20 miles offshore or more

It's the same with the rigging

I've inspected (and tested while sailing) my rigging and it looks pretty good except one flat spot up by the roller furling head swivel. There are no broken strands up there though.

I don't believe in replacing every thing on a newly purchased good old boat until it's needed.

Since I bought my boat in 2011, I'm still using the PO's dock lines, anchors,
depth finder, (the GPS units just failed 1990's era I think) rudder stuffing box packing, jib, rigging, VHF, analog battery monitor, cockpit thru hull hoses, and the thru hulls themselves.

I replaced the PO's halyards last Spring along with his dodger and mainsail cover. I replaced the PO's failed compass in 2018 with two handheld Suunto Compasses. Replaced the GPS units with a handheld VHF/GPS. Replaced his curtains with shades in 2019.

I also replaced the tiller in 2019. The PO's/original tiller broke in half while I was sailing home from 20 miles out
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 13:23   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 47
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
At least give them some good hard whacks when its safe to do so.
I don't think it's a good idea to beat on a valve when hauled out. What would you look for besides breaking the valve off? A nice ringing sound? A dull thump? A propagated crack (that you may not see until water starts seeping in when you splash)?
Poche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2019, 16:33   #15
Registered User
 
navdi's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: LI Sound
Boat: Sabre 34-2
Posts: 84
Re: Old Boat Refit (Seacocks)

My plans are similar to OP's, not replace something if it's not broken.

We bought our 1987 Sabre 34 a few months ago and out of the 7 seacocks only 1 was functional. Over time and with the help of WD40 and PB blaster I was able to get 5 of the remaining 6 working, only the overboard discharge remains stuck in the closed position which is fine by me as we won't need to open that.

The PO of the boat never serviced them in his 5 years of ownership and I am pretty sure previous 2 owners never touched them either. I intend to take them off and service them in winter and put them back on. If the inside metal appears badly corroded I will replace as necessary.

Q: why do tapered ones get such a bad rep? My boat has the Spartan tapered metal-on-metal kind and they are still working after 32 years of neglected use, why are ball valves considered better? (it's an honest question, not trying to start an argument)

Thanks.
__________________

navdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, refit

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailboat Refit Costs: Seacocks: How Many and How Much? Steadman Uhlich Monohull Sailboats 64 21-10-2018 15:37
Buy a "new" old boat or an "old" old boat?? jimp1234 General Sailing Forum 29 08-01-2016 02:12
Old thru hulls and seacocks? OldFrog75 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 02-06-2013 09:32
Replace Old Style Seacocks with Ball Valves HopCar Vendor Spotlight - Great Deals for CF Members! 0 25-08-2011 22:50

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.