Oil Change Pump -- Metering?

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2213318
May even have used one or two on aircraft to pump Jet-A


You Ag guy's stretch the rules. Good thing it's almost always the pilot who causes the crash. If it were the plane and it's systems that caused all the crashes, the gig would be up for using so many non aviation parts on a certified aircraft.

[a64pilot]

It was actually this airplane, Not Ag, but I guess you could argue it is a pest control aircraft?
http://www.iomax.net/
As a manufacturer we can and do often Certify off the shelf parts, for example the brake master cylinder on a Thrush have always been off of a Studerbaker truck


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[Pauls]

If your connection to the oil pan is made directly to a shut off valve (a ball valve is very good here) then there is no danger of the discharge hose failing and dumping your oil. Open the valve to pump out the oil, then close it till the next oil change. Ball valves are available with locks to protect against accidental opening.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2213375]It was actually this airplane, Not Ag, but I guess you could argue it is a pest control aircraft?
IOMAX USA, Inc. | IOMAX is a full spectrum provider for signals intelligence and airborne system solutions servicing customers across the globe.
As a manufacturer we can and do often Certify off the shelf parts, for example the brake master cylinder on a Thrush have always been off of a Studerbaker truck


I worked on ag aircraft for years. We used lots of bogus stuff like pumps, batts, fans etc etc.
I may have flown one of the the first turbine Thrush's. It was a converted piston job, had a smaller PT-6, maybe only 675hp.

[jamhass]

I purchased a Reverso oil transfer pump at a very reasonable price from this guy:
Home
Don't see it listed now, but give him a call.
Don't need to meter, keep your old/empty oil containers and pump into them. My pump reverses, so its easy to refill using the pump.
Best $200 I spent on the boat!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pauls

If your connection to the oil pan is made directly to a shut off valve (a ball valve is very good here) then there is no danger of the discharge hose failing and dumping your oil. Open the valve to pump out the oil, then close it till the next oil change. Ball valves are available with locks to protect against accidental opening.

That's what I was thinking.

My generator already has the ball valve in place.

[rwidman]

1) Go to your favorite marine retailer and buy an electric oil change pump that sits on a bucket.

2) Read and follow the directions that come with it.

3) Done.

The KISS principle.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rwidman

1) Go to your favorite marine retailer and buy an electric oil change pump that sits on a bucket.

2) Read and follow the directions that come with it.

3) Done.

The KISS principle.

Even more KISS is the hand operated vacuum type.

But I already have that, and it is not really very satisfactory. It's amazingly hard to keep from making a mess. Also, it is really difficult to store on board (I don't have a permanent dock for keeping stuff like this), being bulky and messy. A bucket with electric pump would be even worse in this regard.


I'm liking the Reverso type setup. I now understand how to plumb it.

There are different reversible pumps on the market, like this Johnson one:

http://www.fondriest.com/pdf/Johnson...ers_Manual.pdf


This set up will not be more expensive than the portable bucket type. The small amount of installation work (I reckon it's a two-beer job max) will be rewarded with quicker and I hope far neater oil changes. And my storage problem will be greatly reduced. Instead of an inherently messy (because it can't be sealed) vacuum pump, with a couple of nasty, drippy dipstick tubes, I will be storing an empty 10 liter plastic canister, which can be sealed up and kept perfectly neat.

One last advantage is that this will draw the oil from the very bottom of the oil pan so will get more of the old oil out than doing it via the dipstick hole.

This doesn't solve the problem of measuring. I buy my motor oil in 20 liter industrial canisters and it would have been perfect if I could measure the oil coming out and then just measure in the same amount. I'll have to think of something else, since it doesn't seem that you can buy such pumps.

Maybe I'll do it by timing -- time how long it takes to transfer a liter, do a rough transfer, check the dipstick, then pulse the rest of it in as needed. Probably would work ok.

[transmitterdan]

The vacuum canister oil removal pumps are more than adequate for a 4JH series motor and the generator. Get one that holds more than 5 liters. There are small ones that will not hold the entire contents of a 4JH sump. It increases the chances of "error" if you have to make 2 attempts. You take shortcuts and regret it later. The tall skinny 6 quart ones are pretty easy to store either in a bulge area or in the corner of a lazaret.

Electric gear pump permanently installed with valves and manifold is the only other reasonable alternative.

The rubber vane pump on a bucket is fraught with potential messiness. If you accidentally turn it on in reverse once you will know what I mean.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

The vacuum canister oil removal pumps are more than adequate for a 4JH series motor and the generator. Get one that holds more than 5 liters. There are small ones that will not hold the entire contents of a 4JH sump. It increases the chances of "error" if you have to make 2 attempts. You take shortcuts and regret it later. The tall skinny 6 quart ones are pretty easy to store either in a bulge area or in the corner of a lazaret.

Electric gear pump permanently installed with valves and manifold is the only other reasonable alternative.

The rubber vane pump on a bucket is fraught with potential messiness. If you accidentally turn it on in reverse once you will know what I mean.

I have a really good vacuum pump which cost almost as much as a permanently installed reversible electric pump. It's a 6.5 liter Pela model (the tall cylindrical "Big Pela" one), and it exactly holds what it is able to get out of my 4JH sump.

I am able to store it from the point of view of volume, but you can't close it off completely, so oil will drip out of it if it gets turned around. Plus the dipstick tubes drip oil, no matter how well you clean them. This is just an inherent mess.

My situation is different from that of people who have a permanent dock, and can keep all this stuff off the boat. I have to keep my workshop with me, as I wander from one end of Northern Europe to the other in the course of every year, and have no "base" to come back to, to do maintenance.

I am pretty much convinced now that the permanently plumbed reversible pump is the way to go. My Yanmar has a threaded plug where the ball cock can go, with a locking ball cock, there seems to be little risk of an oil spill. I don't have to pay $1000 for the completely Reverso system with the manifold; in fact the little pump only costs 100 pounds or so. The key will be coming up with a way to cap off and store the discharge hose end so it doesn't drip, and is not in the way. If I can crack that, then this should be a perfect system, taking up virtually no space, and being almost perfectly mess-free.

[Pyxis156]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

OK, so this is what I am now thinking.

The "Reverso" system costs about $1000 in the UK. And doesn't really consist of anything other than a reversible oil transfer pump (such as you can get from Jabsco or Johnson for 100 quid ($130) or so. And some fittings. Incidentally, I think this is what my Dad had on his boat.

So maybe I will just buy a Johnson pump, an oil change valve (I found the place where it can be installed in my Yanmar oil pan), and some hose. I'll leave a length of hose free for discharge/supply, with some way to hold it out of the way, and some way to cap it so it doesn't drip.

Surely someone here has done something similar?

Hi DH,

I have a Reverso hooked up to both my engine (Yanmar 4JH4-HTE) and transmission via a simple valve manifold. Works great, can change both in ten minutes with no more than a drip or two at most. Happy to send pics of the install if you like.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pyxis156

Hi DH,

I have a Reverso hooked up to both my engine (Yanmar 4JH4-HTE) and transmission via a simple valve manifold. Works great, can change both in ten minutes with no more than a drip or two at most. Happy to send pics of the install if you like.

Please do!! Post them here, as others are likely to be interested.

How do you get it hooked up to the gearbox? I didn't think there was a drain plug in that.

Very interesting.

[a64pilot]

This is where we got that pump, I linked to 24V pumps, cause I think I remember your a 24V boat? But there are 12V pumps as well
24 Volt Pumps - Enginegearonline Store

I'm thinking the first one, the 1 GPM is all you would need. 1 GPM is a lot of oil, fast

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

This is where we got that pump, I linked to 24V pumps, cause I think I remember your a 24V boat? But there are 12V pumps as well
24 Volt Pumps - Enginegearonline Store

I'm thinking the first one, the 1 GPM is all you would need. 1 GPM is a lot of oil, fast

Thanks! Doesn't say whether it's reversible, but I suppose it must be.

There is actually a fair variety of these available. I might be inclined to the Johnson one, considering how much better my Johnson water pressure pump is than the Jabsco it replaced.

[a64pilot]

If I were to use one pump for emptying different fluids, I may be a little hesitant to use it to fill with as I would think you would get cross contamination?