Offshore Sailor Needs Advice

[BlueWaterSail]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

To be perfectly honest…..Ronnie bugs me!

Not in a way that makes me hate him or wish him bad luck but more in that obnoxious way of a really bad singer who hogs the karaoke microphone and wants to sell tickets.

Sailing is a passion for most of us, for Ronnie it is a means to an end of self promotion and somewhere along that journey, the spirit of being a good sailor will get damaged.

Sorry can’t help my feelings and I will say no more on the subject.

I feel that way too.

I've made my peace with Ronnie, and also have laid to rest any further urges to critique his actions.

The simple reason is that the sailing part of his travels appears to be over and travel "by any means" just does not interest me in the context of this forum.

BWS

[GordMay]

While Ronnie’s current course may be drifting away from the CruisersForum mandate, his evolving situation may remain of interest to some of our membership.
What will not be of interest, will be personality-bashing.
We may review and critique some of his actions (or inactions); but not his person.

[ronniesimpson]

Originally Posted by BlueWaterSail

The simple reason is that the sailing part of his travels appears to be over and travel "by any means" just does not interest me in the context of this forum.
BWS

im currently in hong kong, actively looking for sailboats. how does that mean the sailing part is over? refer to my threads elsewhere on the forum.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

This is where the experience makes things easier. All those little things like how to set up emergency steering, how to trawl warps to steer, how to use sails to steer, what to expect with seas, and so on and so on. Without having any of that experience, it suddenly becomes all too big and demoralising out there.
Can anyone remember a certain couple on a certain cat that made a journey around the world not knowing any of this and fortunately they made it. But mate didn't some of us get a right royal roasting by them and some others for the comments made. But this here story is exactly what many of us were trying to say. It can go horribly wrong and the difference between making it the journey or not is simply knowing the tricks.
And another reason why NZ requires a certain level of safety standard and Crew knowledge before Kiwi's are allowed to head off.

I have been busy with other things and have not followed the saga until now. But I have to agree with Alan here. In fact, I seem to remember that one of the concerns expressed about that "certain cat" was that even though the crew made it (despite revelling in their own ignorance), that they would inspire others to think they could do the same.

I don't think it's wrong to point this out.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Hud3

I remember the first time that I sailed an offshore passage, on a friend's boat. I had been sailing for years, but all of it was coastal up to that trip.

We encountered conditions just about identical to what Robbie described. We also lost our steering, and had to use the emergency tiller--three days in a gale steering with a little two foot long pipe. The boat leaked. We were totally exposed to the elements in the cockpit--no dodger or bimini. It was pretty bad for three solid days. Cold, wet, exhausting, debilitating. At least I wasn't seasick. And I was sailing with three very accomplished bluewater sailors, not by myself. You can't imagine what it's like unless you've been there.

What I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be harsh or sarcastic in our criticism of Robbie. Most of us would have done it differently, but you do have to give him credit for trying. He made a strong effort to do it right. He's no David Vann, that's for sure. He's guilty of inexperience and optimism, that's all. Do you remember when you were in your twenties? How good was your judgment then?

I'd suggest that you not post anything here that you wouldn't say about your son or brother, if they attempted the same thing. This is a pretty traumatic thing for Robbie to be going through, and Lord knows he has been through a lot in Iraq, as well.

Cut him some slack.

Hud -- been there myself. Had steering, but dismasted. Survival conditions for days. It is traumatic, but you (and I) had already had years of coastal sailing (and in my case, a bit offshore). Neither of us set off ALONE after only a few months of preparation and virtually no experience.

His situation and yours were substantially different.

Moving beyond the criticism, I think the obsession with "single handing" -- especially for anyone but the highly experienced -- is overrated at best and ludicrous at worst. One cannot overestimate the psychological value of having another individual to bounce ideas off and think things through. If that person is highly experienced, all the better.

Why did Ronnie insist on doing this alone? Some romantic notion, I suspect. We're all guilty, I think, of romanticizing the "solo" part of these endeavors.

Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with single-handing. But to set off ALONE with virtually no experience is just asking for trouble, IMHO.

[waterworldly]

I get a little sick and tired of listening to you guys beat up my friends Pat and Ali. Granted, they did not have much experience, but to say they were "lucky" while crossing all the oceans and spending three years out there doing what all of you would like to have done, or would like to be doing, is just ********. I owned a business for years, and when I was able to sell it for a good profit, lots of people said I was "lucky". Well, to boil down all my years in business, (like Pat and Ali's three years at sea) and our success as being "lucky" is just damn insulting. It involved lots of hard work, lots of sweat and uncertainty, and most of all, lots of balls to be successful, not some bull theory that anyone that succeeds at something that you have not must be "lucky" because that's the only way it would ever happen. PERIOD.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

I get a little sick and tired of listening to you guys beat up my friends Pat and Ali. Granted, they did not have much experience, but to say they were "lucky" while crossing all the oceans and spending three years out there doing what all of you would like to have done, or would like to be doing, is just ********. I owned a business for years, and when I was able to sell it for a good profit, lots of people said I was "lucky". Well, to boil down all my years in business, (like Pat and Ali's three years at sea) and our success as being "lucky" is just damn insulting. It involved lots of hard work, lots of sweat and uncertainty, and most of all, lots of balls to be successful, not some bull theory that anyone that succeeds at something that you have not must be "lucky" because that's the only way it would ever happen. PERIOD.

Who said anything about Pat and Ali?! I don't think their names have come up here.

[waterworldly]

Nice try, but the "certain cat" is certainly them, and you know it. If their names have been banned here for some reason, then as a monderator, you should have known better.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

Nice try, but the "certain cat" is certainly them, and you know it.

I think others have been respectful in recent posts in reference to what was a long and involved thread on this forum. Not mentioning names was fair enough under the circumstances, I think.

[waterworldly]

Good edit work. At any rate, my opinion still stands. Hard work followed by success is not luck, it is just hard work.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

Good edit work. At any rate, my opinion still stands. Hard work followed by success is not luck, it is just hard work.

And my opinion stands: whether or not the crew from that certain cat got lucky or made their luck along the way, their marketing schtick was to pass themselves off as a new-generation of sailor that didn't give a rat's backside about anyone else's opinion or, in some cases, about basic safety. Whether that was just to bait the "traditional" (read: old) cruising establishment or not is not for me to surmise.

But their attitude -- and not their sailing acumen -- is what seems to inspire anyone who is to be inspired by their exploits.

It's not all about Youtube and Facebook, as Ronnie recently discovered. It's irresponsible to encourage others to set off with little experience and little inclination to listen to others with experience.

Don't get me wrong, youthful exuberance is a great thing and it has accomplished some wonderful things when it's paired with a small dose of caution and a respect for what others have done.

In my opinion (which still stands), that "certain cat" represents quite the opposite ethos.

[waterworldly]

AHHHH, but wouldn't you have said the same about Slocum and the Pardy's and Fatty Goodlander when they started out also?

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

AHHHH, but wouldn't you have said the same about Slocum and the Pardy's and Fatty Goodlander when they started out also?

Not at all. Slocum was an accomplished sea captain. To the best of my knowledge, the Pardy's and Fatty both had extensive sailing experience before embarking on a circumnavigation.

It's one thing to bend the rules when you know what the rules are. It's entirely another to abandon them out of ignorance and/or arrogance.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by waterworldly

AHHHH, but wouldn't you have said the same about Slocum ... when they started out also?

Slocum was a 55 y/o seasoned seaman*, with 40 years experience at sea, when he set sail on his circumnavigation in 1895.
* He received his certificate as a fully-qualified Second Mate (British Merchant Marine) at the age of eighteen.

[ronniesimpson]

theres some tough critics on this site. completely disregarding my story, Pat and Ali CIRCUMNAVIGATED. as in, they sailed a boat around the entire planet and people are still talking sh*t about them on this site. thats pretty lame if you ask me.