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Old 16-02-2009, 16:27   #391
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and....

And this thread gets locked when?
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Old 16-02-2009, 18:08   #392
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Phew that is a lot of reading. There is one thing I would like to share with you all, Ronnie included.

I live just a few short miles from Camp LeJuene, every day we see guys that are coming home from Iraq they all have that the 8ft tall and bullet proof look about them, especially the younger crowd, Ronnie's age. Many of them go out and buy an hot car that either gets them in more trouble than they can handle or gets them killed. Others take that attitude to the bars and end up starting fights with the same people that just bought them a drink and get there a$$ beat to a pulp in the process. You can't reason with them in either situation, you can't reason with them period, we call it the Iraq attitude.

Having seen it more often than I wished, IMHO, this was Ronnie's failure as well. He was given advice, he chose to ignore it, he was told he wasn't ready, he chose to ignore that. People tried to reason with him, his mind was made up. You have no idea how much we see that around here. Fortunately all he lost was his boat.

Ronnie, you chose to get out there and do what others, myself included, have not done yet, I applaud you for that, but remind you that getting out there and doing something does not remove your responsibility to know what your doing. Your downfall in this case. Good luck and may your future travels be less dramatic.
Hey Twisty,

If you read the whole thread, that's unbelievable. I'm a friend of Ronnie's, we talk regularly, and hope someday to race the TransPac together. He's bicycling through Viet Nam currently, on his way to Europe! He is like the energizer bunny! haha. He never quits. This is a really old thread, and has lost it's punch, but at the time was very tense for those of us that knew him personally, and for those that followed his dream on his website. You can PM me if you want to know about that, I don't know if it's allowed to post the address?

For Ronnie, he's always like this, probably nothing to do with Iraq...he's just a geniune daredevil. He certainly made a bad choice to leave alone. This is probably the only mistake that he will admit to, there were others, but he doesn't see it that way. He survived fortunately, and hopefully will survive his trip that he is currently on. Stay tuned...more to come in the future!
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Old 16-02-2009, 18:17   #393
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Originally Posted by Colorado Dreamer View Post
And this thread gets locked when?
Why should it be locked??? You don't have to read it. There is a true story here, that others can learn from. How many times do you read about someone saying they want to sail the world. Maybe they read this before they sell their house, buy a boat, and lose everything. It's not all smooth sailing and beautiful sunsets!
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Old 16-02-2009, 18:31   #394
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Originally Posted by Ralph Brogdon View Post
Hey Twisty,

If you read the whole thread, that's unbelievable. I'm a friend of Ronnie's, we talk regularly, and hope someday to race the TransPac together. He's bicycling through Viet Nam currently, on his way to Europe! He is like the energizer bunny! haha. He never quits. This is a really old thread, and has lost it's punch, but at the time was very tense for those of us that knew him personally, and for those that followed his dream on his website. You can PM me if you want to know about that, I don't know if it's allowed to post the address?

For Ronnie, he's always like this, probably nothing to do with Iraq...he's just a geniune daredevil. He certainly made a bad choice to leave alone. This is probably the only mistake that he will admit to, there were others, but he doesn't see it that way. He survived fortunately, and hopefully will survive his trip that he is currently on. Stay tuned...more to come in the future!
Hey Ralph,
I read every page, every word, it took me all afternoon..lol Believe me I didnt start reading this with a preconceived notion, it took me almost 2 dozen pages to form that opinion. We see it here so often it is unmistakable, and you may be right, that may not be the case here, that may just be the way he is, I don't know him, I can not make that determination. But I can tell you I read every one of his posts, and from what I have seen, and dealt with for the 6 years I have been here with young soldiers, most Ronnie's age, living right next door, his situation resembles many others, some with a lot worse outcomes.
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Old 16-02-2009, 18:53   #395
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Twisty,

I'm sure you are right about the messed up kids you see. This is a little different, as I have accounts from his uncle from when Ronnie was a little guy, as well as from his brother RJ. I just returned from Hawaii where his brother lives... we talked about alot of stuff. Ronnie is just Ronnie, and will be as long as he lives.

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Old 16-02-2009, 19:46   #396
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Originally Posted by Ralph Brogdon View Post
Twisty,

I'm sure you are right about the messed up kids you see. This is a little different, as I have accounts from his uncle from when Ronnie was a little guy, as well as from his brother RJ. I just returned from Hawaii where his brother lives... we talked about alot of stuff. Ronnie is just Ronnie, and will be as long as he lives.

Ralph
Has his boat floated up there yet?
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Old 16-02-2009, 19:57   #397
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Originally Posted by twisty View Post
.... Others take that attitude to the bars and end up starting fights with the same people that just bought them a drink and get there a$$ beat to a pulp in the process. You can't reason with them in either situation, you can't reason with them period, we call it the Iraq attitude.

Having seen it more often than I wished, IMHO, this was Ronnie's failure as well. He was given advice, he chose to ignore it, he was told he wasn't ready, he chose to ignore that. People tried to reason with him, his mind was made up. You have no idea how much we see that around here.
I detest your generalizations and sweeping comments. In fact, I really do not like the attitude in your post either. Sorta of blend between impotence, pontifcating, and mother knows best -- all served with a healthy dose of patronization.

Ronnie paying attention to sailing advice or ignoring it had nothing to do with his experiences in Iraq.

Michael
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Old 16-02-2009, 19:58   #398
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Originally Posted by Ralph Brogdon View Post
Why should it be locked??? You don't have to read it. There is a true story here, that others can learn from. How many times do you read about someone saying they want to sail the world. Maybe they read this before they sell their house, buy a boat, and lose everything. It's not all smooth sailing and beautiful sunsets!
Yes, I realize I do not have to read it, but I guess I just do not see what anyone else could add to this thread that has not already been added.

I too know Ronnie, my boat was directly across from his at the Marina, and I agree that much can be learned from his....well, lack of judgement.

Just not sure how many more pages need to be added, or how many more tangents need to be taken before the thread is closed.

Just my two cents.
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:01   #399
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Originally Posted by twisty View Post
Phew that is a lot of reading. There is one thing I would like to share with you all, Ronnie included.

I live just a few short miles from Camp LeJuene, every day we see guys that are coming home from Iraq they all have that the 8ft tall and bullet proof look about them, especially the younger crowd, Ronnie's age. Many of them go out and buy an hot car that either gets them in more trouble than they can handle or gets them killed. Others take that attitude to the bars and end up starting fights with the same people that just bought them a drink and get there a$$ beat to a pulp in the process. You can't reason with them in either situation, you can't reason with them period, we call it the Iraq attitude.

Having seen it more often than I wished, IMHO, this was Ronnie's failure as well. He was given advice, he chose to ignore it, he was told he wasn't ready, he chose to ignore that. People tried to reason with him, his mind was made up. You have no idea how much we see that around here. Fortunately all he lost was his boat.

Ronnie, you chose to get out there and do what others, myself included, have not done yet, I applaud you for that, but remind you that getting out there and doing something does not remove your responsibility to know what your doing. Your downfall in this case. Good luck and may your future travels be less dramatic.
I think you hit it EXACTLY on the head.
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:05   #400
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Originally Posted by MV View Post
I detest your generalizations and sweeping comments. In fact, I really do not like the attitude in your post either. Sorta of blend between impotence, pontifcating, and mother knows best -- all served with a healthy dose of patronization.

Ronnie paying attention to sailing advice or ignoring it had nothing to do with his experiences in Iraq.

Michael
Having served in the military, and in a war zone, plus having met Ronnie in person and watching him over several months prepare (or failure to prepare) for the trip, I actually think the post was dead on.

Since I did not know him prior to his experiences in Iraq, I can not comment on how he was "before" but I can certainly attest that he was exactly as described "after".

That being said, I am not a Doctor, nor do I pretend to be one, so only Ronnie knows for sure what his mental state was prior to departure.

For all of his flaws as a sailor, I think Ronnie is an admirable person, and you have to admire his tenacity and ability to pick up, albeit on a bike, right where he left off. (Ok, plus or minus a few thousand miles thanks to a tanker.)

Since we are online, I am not sure how you can tell the "attitude" of a post, and like I mentioned earlier, if this thread was locked, I am sure this tangent would have been avoided too.
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:25   #401
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Originally Posted by MV View Post
I detest your generalizations and sweeping comments. In fact, I really do not like the attitude in your post either. Sorta of blend between impotence, pontifcating, and mother knows best -- all served with a healthy dose of patronization.

Ronnie paying attention to sailing advice or ignoring it had nothing to do with his experiences in Iraq.

Michael
I am going to take a, not so blind, stab in the dark here, you are in some way associated with the military?
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:37   #402
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On second thought let me go into this a little further...

Your entitled to your opinion, the only thing I have to go by are the obits in the newspaper here that all read the same, served in Iraq, had just returned home. Or the things I have seen, the first few weeks after a large deployment comes back is always 'interesting'. Or having one of my friends who is an officer tell me the horror stories about these kids coming home after being sent into a warzone at an age when they already think they are bullet proof, they continue on the bulletproof attitude with but now at a heightened level because they have now actually been shot at.

It is sad to see, and yes, we see it in the older age group as well, but it is not as prevalent. I can only relate to what I see and the characteristics I see in Ronnie through his posts are not at all unlike so many others I have seen in the last six years.

His family says he has been like this all his life, then so be it. It just so happens though that that is also how we see marines coming home from Iraq behave(for lack of a better term).
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:43   #403
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Yes, I realize I do not have to read it, but I guess I just do not see what anyone else could add to this thread that has not already been added.

I too know Ronnie, my boat was directly across from his at the Marina, and I agree that much can be learned from his....well, lack of judgement.

Just not sure how many more pages need to be added, or how many more tangents need to be taken before the thread is closed.

Just my two cents.
In my opinion, you should have stopped him from going, or someone else on the dock should have. I know it wouldn't have been easy, but would have been time well spent. Did you just wish him "good luck"? Honestly, he had no idea what he was getting into.

To Twisty,
My wife has actuually said stuff like what you are saying. She's just a school teacher, ready to retire in a year, and has her masters. She isn't usually wrong. I didn't know Ronnie before Iraq, so maybe it did actually have an effect, I'm not one to judge.

To CD,
I agree that no one can add much to this thread. You are right, totally. But, should others like Twisty be allowed to spend their whole afternoon reading and learning something from it, not be allowed??? Why erase this true story, in this case, as it was actually happening.
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:46   #404
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Has his boat floated up there yet?
Actualy, I went to Hawaii a week ago. Ronnies brother rented a twin engine airplane, and we went looking. That's all I can say right now.
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Old 16-02-2009, 20:52   #405
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In my opinion, you should have stopped him from going, or someone else on the dock should have. I know it wouldn't have been easy, but would have been time well spent. Did you just wish him "good luck"? Honestly, he had no idea what he was getting into.
Not just myself but everyone I know on the dock tried to tell him he should wait until he was more prepared or at least take someone with him that was more experienced. In fact, at several points, Ronnie had people lined up to go with him, but after a few sails with him in the bay, they all backed out for one reason or another. (That should tell you something there.)

Now, once he set his date, and REFUSED to listen to anyone at all, what more can you do? I remember one day, a few days before he was about to depart, when we watched him "zip tie" some critical things together because he did not want to take the time, and thus miss his departure date (because the news team was coming to film it) to do it right.

At that point, all you CAN SAY is good luck and good bye.

I say BULLSHIT to the "he didn't know what he was getting into." I think he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into and chose to ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Brogdon View Post
I agree that no one can add much to this thread. You are right, totally. But, should others like Twisty be allowed to spend their whole afternoon reading and learning something from it, not be allowed??? Why erase this true story, in this case, as it was actually happening.
It does not have to be erased, but locking could help keep it from getting any longer.
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