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03-12-2013, 22:59
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: Samson C Mist 32
Posts: 680
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
I don't see anything that looks like black iron anywhere in the pics. Dezincified brass looks red since all the zinc is gone, leaving only copper. And if the longer nipple were black iron, it would be a lot more rusted, no?
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04-12-2013, 07:08
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: White Stone, VA
Boat: Cabo Rico 38 / Bayfield 32
Posts: 624
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
I've got the same boat, same year, same raw water strainer installation. No iron or steel pipe on mine. My guess is they're brass nipples and they've de-zincified. Sure looks that way to me from the pic's. Bronze pipe nipples are rare. I have only found them from Groco.
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04-12-2013, 07:29
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 4,057
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
Zboss, I think Sailorchick may be right about the iron pipe. It wasn't uncommon to use galvanized iron pipe on boats thirty years ago. A magnet will tell you right away if it's iron.
__________________
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies
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04-12-2013, 07:47
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
Bonding works FOR ME. Why? Because the bonding is restricted to the DC system. The AC is isolated to itself, and only contacts earth ground at the dock's main AC panel. When I got the boat both the AC gnd, AC neutral and DC ground were connected in the boat. I was getting all kinds of leakage until I removed the AC component from the DC.
__________________
Randy
Cape Dory 25D Seraph
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04-12-2013, 08:39
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#20
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 5,486
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
So I was wrong. I think the elbow in the photo is black iron too. The copper patina on the elbow is from ion exchange which is another reason to change the sea strainer. The 4" nipple after the elbow looks like it had a hose on the end of it.
Dezincing of a brass nipple would have caused the threads to fail first and not the pipe nipple breaking in the middle.
I've a dollar that says that's black steel. You can see the flakes if you enlarge and zoom in on the photo's. Brass does not flake when it corrodes.
Hopcar could be right and it might have been galvanized steel. The zinc galvanizing would have protected the steel until the zinc was consumed, which would also explain the patina on the elbow and short nipple.
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04-12-2013, 10:01
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,976
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
putting a magnet on it should solve that mystery....
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04-12-2013, 10:13
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: Samson C Mist 32
Posts: 680
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
A close nipple is almost all threaded, and at that advanced state of dezincification, it could break anywhere. I've been in the water business since 1984 and I've seen just about every conceivable combination of pipe materials. I've never seen galvanized or black iron covered with green corrosion like these pictures. Brass, copper, and bronze, yes.
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04-12-2013, 10:48
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#23
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,109
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
I don't see anything that looks like an iron corrosion, flaking layers.
What I see is a classic example of a cheap brass nipple that is dezincified. Brass and all brozne will turn pinkish not yellow, The yellow in brass is zinc.
When cheap brass, ie high content of zinc galvanicly corrodes, it appears like a pumas stone.
The lower one that was connected to the hose appears to be a better quality of bronze. If it were Iron it would be seriously wasted at the hose fitting. good Bronze can turn a deep red/brown that almost looks black. And certainly wouldn't show signs of the bronze patina as it does.
What I see here is a skipper that fails to take care of things. Any bronze fitting showing such a thick growth of patina is a sure sign of water leaks.
Lloyd
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04-12-2013, 11:29
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#24
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 5,486
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
I have got to get younger eyes. I enlarged #2 and sharpened it and yes its dezinc-ed. You can see the tiny holes where the zinc sacrificed itself.
So I was wrong.... again.
I actually see some pitting on the sea strainer housing too. So the zinc in the sea strainer is most likely gone too. But its a lower precentage then the fittings.
The good news is Zboss caught it just before it failed. That could have been nasty.
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04-12-2013, 12:50
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nyack, NY
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNeko
26 years, come on.
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My Grocco through hulls are 37 years old, all isolated and immaculate. Some of the worst corrosion issues I have seen with boat fittings have been bonded. My first observation was also a problem with the nipple, doesn't appear to be a marine setup, looks like somebody along the way used a regular household setup here and as expressed its a dissimilar metal issue.
__________________
"All men are created equal, some just more than
others" KD2RLY
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04-12-2013, 17:53
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: 1987 Cabo Rico 38 #117 (sold) & 2008 Manta 42 #124
Posts: 4,172
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
I am pretty sure everything on the boat was original.
I ended up drastically reducing the complexity of the whole strainer system. I now just have three parts... the strainer and two of these:
Groco Pipe-to-Hose Elbow Fittings (FFC series)
Much nicer and cleaner all around.
On top of that, the new strainer has an easily accessible lid so that encourages regular checks of the strainer.
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04-12-2013, 20:31
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,145
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates
Bonding works FOR ME. Why? Because the bonding is restricted to the DC system. The AC is isolated to itself, and only contacts earth ground at the dock's main AC panel. When I got the boat both the AC gnd, AC neutral and DC ground were connected in the boat. I was getting all kinds of leakage until I removed the AC component from the DC.
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+ 1
If it's not already properly grounded, why are you even plugging into it?
Sketchy marina?
Just another good reason for solar, LiFePo4's aerogel...
__________________
The question is not, "Who will let me?"
The question is,"Who is going to stop me?"
Ayn Rand
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04-12-2013, 20:32
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,145
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Re: Now a believer in bonding
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates
Bonding works FOR ME. Why? Because the bonding is restricted to the DC system. The AC is isolated to itself, and only contacts earth ground at the dock's main AC panel. When I got the boat both the AC gnd, AC neutral and DC ground were connected in the boat. I was getting all kinds of leakage until I removed the AC component from the DC.
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+ 1
If it's not already properly grounded, why are you even plugging into it?
Sketchy marina?
Just another good reason for solar, LiFePo4's Aerogel insulation ...
__________________
The question is not, "Who will let me?"
The question is,"Who is going to stop me?"
Ayn Rand
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