New Rules for Bottom Paint

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

what do you teach and can i sign up if i can pronounce it


zoo an thelly

wrong, but that's the most common mispronunciation I hear from students.
(We're talking undergraduates, of course.)

zoʊ.əzænˈθɛli

zoe zan theli

[Whimsy]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

...the question needs to be whether or not this is the most practical/responsible thing to do... and all issues would need to be reviewed, i.e what are the affects of the manufacturing of 'green materials', and everything... not all GREEN materials and methos are green... as was discussed in teh hudrogen thread... it takes fossil fuiles to create hydrogen on a mass scale...

Good point. To demonstrate it in a dramatic fashion, here's a link to an article about the enviro-impact of Pius (325) vs Hummer (195) over the lifetime of the products:
http://www.impactlab.net/2007/03/14/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage/

EXCERPT:
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Through a study... the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles.

... The nickel [for the batterys] is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

...Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

...the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius’s arch nemesis.

... the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

[diver for hire]

actually this has become law in Maryland, but i only applies to marinas. It is not part of the clean marina program but they did jump on it like it was their own Its part of the Maryland dept of environments stormwater regulations requiring marinas to get permits
for discharge and part of prohibited discharge is ablative paint BUT IT IS NOT the law of the land and only applies to commercial marinas and clubs, it does not apply to divers or residential boat slips

http://www.mde.maryland.gov/programs...0MA_PERMIT.pdf

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Whimsy

Good point. To demonstrate it in a dramatic fashion, here's a link to an article about the enviro-impact of Pius (325) vs Hummer (195) over the lifetime of the products:
http://www.impactlab.net/2007/03/14/prius-outdoes-hummer-in-environmental-damage/

EXCERPT:
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage...

Apparently, the CNW study ("Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles From Concept to Disposal”) has been discredited in a paper titled "Hummer versus Prius: 'Dust to Dust' Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science" by Dr. Peter H. Gleick of the Pacific Institute.
Dr. Gleick's paper pokes holes in the original study, pointing out its poor assumptions such as the usable life of a Hummer H1 (35 years) versus the life of a Prius (11) years. The original study also based its conclusions on the lifetime miles of a Prius versus a Hummer H1, where it assumed 109,000 miles versus 379,000 miles, respectively. The 109,000 mile figure for the Prius is truly bizarre, as many people have documented their Priuses getting well over this number.

"Hummer versus Prius: 'Dust to Dust' Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science"
Here ➥ http://www.evworld.com/library/pacinst_hummerVprius.pdf

Read more ➥ Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth - The Car Connection

[barnakiel]

Probably. Or hoist and pressure wash in a local boatyard.

b.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by diver for hire

actually this has become law in Maryland, but i only applies to marinas. It is not part of the clean marina program but they did jump on it like it was their own Its part of the Maryland dept of environments stormwater regulations requiring marinas to get permits
for discharge and part of prohibited discharge is ablative paint BUT IT IS NOT the law of the land and only applies to commercial marinas and clubs, it does not apply to divers or residential boat slips

http://www.mde.maryland.gov/programs...0MA_PERMIT.pdf

If I'm reading and understanding the document correctly, it is no different than the rules governing discharges by boatyards (which by law are seperate entities from marinas in California) here.

[diver for hire]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

If I'm reading and understanding the document correctly, it is no different than the rules governing discharges by boatyards (which by law are seperate entities from marinas in California) here.

Fastbottoms are you say cleaning is still legal in maryland marinas as the document reads ?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by diver for hire

Fastbottoms are you say cleaning is still legal in maryland marinas as the document reads ?

Isn't that what you said?

Originally Posted by diver for hire

...it does not apply to divers...

I did not read the entire document, but it appears at first glance to be similar to the stormwater discharge permit that boatyards here are required to carry. I don't see where it prohibits in-water hull cleaning activities.

[diver for hire]

Page 14 part 4 non stormwater discharges im not a lawyer but it seems to me it says no cleaning of ablative paints in the marinas I hope im wrong but i dont think so.
though divers can clean hulls at private residence

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by diver for hire

Page 14 part 4 non stormwater discharges im not a lawyer but it seems to me it says no cleaning of ablative paints in the marinas I hope im wrong but i dont think so

I don't read it that way. It does say that "washing" of ablative paints is prohibited, but it doesn't ban hull cleaning. Worst case scenario, you don't clean ablative paints, which has been the situation in Washington (for instance) for years. I also suspect that the language is referring to marinas specifically (it tough to know, you guys out east generally use the term "marina" to refer to both marinas and boatyards, but here they are seperate entities and referred to seperately) so I would think that it's up to marina operators to determine what in-water activiites they will allow. Have you spoken with any marina staff about what their interpretation is?

[fstbttms]

Look at page #17, right at the top, paragraph #3- it specifically requires that divers use the Maryland Best Management Practices for hull cleaning. I've read 'em, they're SOP for BMPs. So it seems that hull cleaning is not specifically prohibited.

[diver for hire]

fstbottoms you are correct but most sailboats in this area use the softer ablative paints and it is going to be hard to do a good job without some paint coming off
i dont know if you are familiar with the Chesapeake, but the water here fouls bottoms fairly quick , also most customers like to see a clean waterline
we can clean bottoms but its going to be tough getting used to the new rules

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by diver for hire

we can clean bottoms but its going to be tough getting used to the new rules

Your customers are going to have to get used to switching to non-ablative paints if they want hull cleaning services. It seems that you are done cleaning them. How you are going to make a living until that happens is beyond me. Thank God for the California Professional Divers Association. We would never get blindsided like that.

[David M]

In the big picture, sewage treatment plants run by government agencies during large storm events release far more nasty stuff than boats in the same waters. I skipper a boat that takes these samples for other government agencies. Also storm drains that drain the streets and highways, also owned by government agencies, release a huge amount of nasty stuff when it rains.

Just like you tell a bully, "Go pick on someone your own size". Either that or "Don't be a hypocrite" or "Take care of your own business first and then worry about others."

[diver for hire]

we had the maryland marine trades association stand up for us and boat US but the politicians won luckily we have a tremendous amount of shoreline with private docks
so i can have a 30 to 40 boat week and never step foot in a marina