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Old 20-08-2009, 17:15   #1
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New Bowsprit for CD30

My friend and I are going to replace my bowsprit this weekend. Before being too impressed with me - he is a master carpenter . Anyways, the original bowsprit is a big plank of white oak, or something like that, and is now completely rotten.

Since said carpenter is helping me (and doing this for free) I want to keep this simple.
I do not want to push for a laminated bowsprit, I know its stronger. The solid plank lasted twenty years so can't be all that bad.
I do want teak for its rot resistance.
I do not want to varnish, "bare wood baby" thats my motto

So questions are:
Once installed, do I need to season the teak or can it just be left (with salt baths) alone to silver out.

Bedding with 5200? scary/good? Should I use a real two part bedding compound? something better?

Using bronze bolts, any issue? should I go SS instead?

Dont want teak plugs so using carriage bolts, so it will have exposed heads (domed), any issues?

Should I gasket the bolts or just bed it with 5200 like normal? Or both?

and the dimensions are 9" x 53" x 2"
9 inches wide (but I'm adding three inches -if possible)
53 inches long (but adding three inches there too )
2 inches thick ( I'm ok with that)

Couldnt add pic so here is a link to my album (sorry)
Bowsprit project

Any input will be greatly appreciative.
Thanks,
Erika
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Old 20-08-2009, 18:31   #2
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Teak price...

5' x 2" x 9" teak plank!

Have you costed clear teak recently? (I could be wrong but I found $10 - $20 per super foot? Allowing for wastage that's $1200 to $2400!).

There are possible advantages to laminating a bow spit.

1) It can be made to a much nicer shape. For the cost of your teal plank it may be possible to have a nice stainless steel end cap made that puts the stresses in more desirable locations.
2) You can put the bow rollers (two can be nice, and not just for tea) somewhere that does not involve a visit to the chiropractor.
3) It can be made much longer, hopefully putting the stresses where they (back to the first frame/bulkhead?) belong.
4) It might be possible to have one of those nice cruising spinnakers one day if you plan for it now.
5) The laminations may reduce the chances of a latent defect in the wood spoiling your day and may restrict any development of rot.
6) Proper use of saturating epoxy and a good paint job could give a long lasting job.

It will take longer though.
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Old 20-08-2009, 19:26   #3
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My friend can get it for less 150 bucks? Don't know his secret, I'll find out. He was trying to get iron wood but couldn't get it in 2 inch. We are going Saturday to buy the plank so I'll let you know if it is more expensive than he estimated. I have known him for years, so if ya smell a rat, it aint him.

If for some reason it is that much, I will go with white oak, smith epoxy it and varnish (wah) that will be about $100 all together.

If I had the dough I'd make a big beautiful stainless one like I want to. But money being what it is, and a master craftsman offering to help me this weekend! so then I can go sailing on MY boat, a gal can't resist.

I plan on adding some whiskers one day, and she will always have a snubber to the breast plate for strength.
Erika
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Old 20-08-2009, 21:55   #4
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Four inches...

If you can, go with a 4" plank, gives much more latitude and could be shaped to a more traditional shape.

At that price I'd be guessing it's not teak, so it's going to need serious protection if you want it to last.

I'd suggest allowing one weekend for fabrication and primer and a week to put on a few coats of topcoat and to allow it to dry.

I have been using whatever cheap moisture cured polyurethane is on special, but I'm a fan of lots of bedding (no gaps). If you go that way I'd recommend having a litre of turpentine and lots of rags handy. Can get v.messy.
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Old 20-08-2009, 22:42   #5
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Thanks for the info, are you saying 4 inches thick?

You are not the only one saying this price is too good to be true. I will find out Saturday when we go to pick it up.

Erika
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Old 22-08-2009, 16:20   #6
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FYI
Got the teak today at hardwoods of houston. Bought a beautiful plank of nice straight grain Teak for about 30 a foot. More expensive than we thought but only because I had to buy the whole plank in order to get my 5 feet length and 2 inch thick. Total bill 430 bucks for a 9' x 10" x 2" foot plank. (Did have to mill it ourselves )

Wont bore you all with this project, just wanted you to know the teak isn't as expensive as previously posted. (But is still expensive!)

Will post project pictures on my album for those interested.
Cheers,
Erika
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Old 22-08-2009, 21:35   #7
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Aloha OG,
Sitka Spruce would be the best choice (for weight purposes).
I'd at least oil it for a couple years to let it stabalize in your environment. Teak can split due to drying. It is heavy. Teak is brittle. I love teak because it is easy to shape and work and resists rot and bugs very well. If you ever want to replace it then I would not use 5200 but something more flexible like 4200 or an equivalent polysulfide. With polysulfide flexibility comes better waterproofing for throughbolts.
Good luck in your installation.
Regards
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Old 22-08-2009, 22:19   #8
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Thanks, and yes, after getting the old sprit off today, the idea of using 5200 does not appeal to me. My new teak looks pretty stable and is very very oily...sweet! I will take your advice and oil it for about a year, it cant hurt it and will insure the least amount of checking and worse. The grain is wonderfully straight and tight(for teak) we had about ten planks to choose from, and really, all of them looked great. Sorry I keep gushing about the teak but I was really prepared to see some lousy young growth, but this place, though expensive, had really nice wood.

I am very light in the bow so she can take the added weight of teak. I will have about 50 of chain and 150 of rode for local sailing (for now). When I add my all chain rode, I will lead it into the bilge aft to help with the weight issue.
Thanks to everyone for the input,
Erika

PS -a new bowsprit is a beautiful thing, OG is happy (the girl and the boat)
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Old 23-08-2009, 13:04   #9
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I have to agree that teak, in my opinion, is the most beautiful wood for boat building.
Congratulations on finding a good piece to use for your project.
Gonna have a picture?
regards,
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Old 23-08-2009, 14:46   #10
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5200 has a lot of misconceptions. A lot is said about not being able to remove it and that is very true, but it also is not very flexible and that is a reason not to use it in your case. For a through hull it's the best.

In your application you are not using the sealant as an adhesive. If it's not bolted on solid no adhesive will hold it alone. The application wants a flexible product to handle the expansion and contraction issues between dissimilar materials. You can't fight the coefficient of expansion with an adhesive.

The bolts that are exposed need sealant not adhesive. Make sure all the bolts are 316 stainless. The bolts need backing plates too. Sealant should gush out as it comes together. If it does not leak out you never had close to enough. Pre tape it with painters tape to make the job easier. Best not to Smoosh it with your finger or use a tool - it makes the mess bigger.

I just rebedded 3 ports that were on with 5200 - PITA. Small 5 x 7 ports to over an hour each to remove. The seals were failing because the expansion of the AlMag frames and the fiberglass were different and the 5200 could not flex enough over time. Personally, I used a Sikaflex 921 sealant. If you clean the parts as clean as possible the bond should be best and the flexibility of a good sealant will do the rest.

The bolt holes are probably the most critical seal as the rest of the contact will have a good surface area.
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Old 23-08-2009, 16:09   #11
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Thanks for the advice! I need all the input I can get
I agree about the sealant, Also I decided on carriage bolts to make sealing easier and will try to go with bronze, but if I cant afford it then 316.

The cape dorys have a huge hunk of stainless steel backing plate that fits like a triangle up in the point of the bow. The whole bow section is remarkably strong, especially since the bow is solid laid up glass (no core that I can see for at least two feet).

Have I mentioned the spartan Bronze? I removed my forstay(3-4 lbs) and baby stay fittings. They are solid spartan bronze and look brand new (the boat is an 82!). everything from spartan is expensive, but almost 30 years old and still looks new! I might get the bow roller from them (310 dollars yikes!)

My new sprit is a lot longer see photo in my bowsprit album (can't figure out how to post here). I can't lengthen my j measurment right now (one project at a time or I will have a mental break down- twitch twitch) but I do want to add later, aparently that will help with my weather helm.

Anyone know a bow roller I may of not seen? I have scoured the defender/west marine sites. It would be great to find a double or singles that attaches to the side of the sprit, in other words rollers for narrow sprits (mine will be less than 10 inches)

Thanks again, you guys are great.
Erika
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Old 23-08-2009, 16:26   #12
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Have you checked out the bow rollers at Hamilton Marine?
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Old 23-08-2009, 19:11   #13
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5'x2"x9" is 7.5 board feet. x $20 bd/ft = $150 $30/bd/ft=$225
A board ft is 144 board inches so multiply wxdxl in inches, divide by 144 to get board feet. You actually paid $28.66 bd/ft. for 15 bd/ft. Not bad.
Josh at Exotic Woods in Towson has teak for $25 bd/ft.
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Old 23-08-2009, 20:05   #14
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The width is a problem. Given the clearance for the forestay I don't see a normal roller fitting without intersecting the forestay. A double for sure. You need a certain amount of length else it's just tacked onto the end. I can check a few CD30's at the club when I go on Monday. If I can find a picture that shows another arrangement I'll post it. We have 3 CD 30's but only two are actually at the club. I had a 33 ft boat that had the forestay integrated to the bow sprit. My own bow sprit is much wider and has twin rollers but not integrated. Going with a single and doing it the same way might not be a bad idea.
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Old 23-08-2009, 20:25   #15
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Redcobra,

When picking out the wood, Tony (my friend) and the hardwood guy had their calculators out trying to give me a rough estimate on the price since I had to purchase the whole plank. I had to take his word for it about the price, cause it is all Chinese to me . He agreed it was expensive, but really, finding a big beautiful seasoned plank of teak, with nice tight straight grain, well..its worth it (Ocean Girl deserves a treat, she was neglected for so long!) I messed up when I said it was 2 inches thick, it was really over 2 3/4 (before milling) but the hardwood guy only charged me for 2 (or something like that, again- Chinese!).

Question - (please) Should I oil the side I am going to bed? It wont be mounted untill next weekend. Once mounted, I planned to oil the sprit just in case it still needed a bit of seasoning. I thought maybe I should do the underside while its off, BUT!! I will be bedding it soon with a good flexible sealant (life caulk, sikkaflex, or something like that) so I will be wiping it down real good with acetone thus removing the oil. Am I splitting hairs here? thinking too too much?


Erika
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