Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-04-2016, 14:44   #31
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
...............Most of the workers are Hispanic and their quality of work varies from one guy to another. ...............
Yea, that's pretty racist. I have been around the block a time or two and have found that the quality of work of "non-Hispanics" varies greatly from one person to another. Many times "non white" people try harder to dispel the myth that their work is not as good as that of white workers while some white workers show up drunk or on drugs.

You know, some of the members here might just be Hispanic. You've insulted them. Did you mean to?
__________________

__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 14:58   #32
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Yea, that's pretty racist. I have been around the block a time or two and have found that the quality of work of "non-Hispanics" varies greatly from one person to another. Many times "non white" people try harder to dispel the myth that their work is not as good as that of white workers while some white workers show up drunk or on drugs.

You know, some of the members here might just be Hispanic. You've insulted them. Did you mean to?
No...I did not...and again...lets complete what I said... " varies from one guy to another. From excellent work to not very good"
So yes...no matter what race, the same is true. In that yard, the people who sand bottoms happen to be Hispanic. Most basketball players are black. Am I racist? A majority of clerical work is done by women. Is that sexist? Most boat owners are male...is that sexist?
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 15:39   #33
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Whangarei
Boat: Bavaria 38 Cruiser, 12meters, 2004
Posts: 109
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

You don't say whether the last coat of antifouling was ablative or hard. I have found issues like this as I have applied new ablative over old AF, sometimes the old coat seems well bonded to the substrate at the time it is waterblasted (which is a pretty solid workout for any unsound paint) after hauling out. But when a few days of drying has elapsed and go to apply new AF over old and it seems the solvents in the new AF release the bond the old AF had on the hull. At this point I was told to go over the hull again checking for signs of any paint poorly bonded and apply epoxy primer before antifouling on any unsound areas. The other issue may be this- some hulls from new- apparently never had an epoxy primer treatment under the antifoul, the AF has gone straight over gelcoat, which may result in poor bonding. The video to me looks like your hull may have not had this initial epoxy priming. What sort of sailboat is it? How old? Is it a production boat?
__________________
Kerry1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 15:51   #34
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Many have suggested going back to the yard that did the work originally. IIRC, the OP said it was done six months ago in Washington and he's now in San Francisco.

Would that modify any of your responses?
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 16:04   #35
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

As others said, no hurry. You can go the summer without bottom paint if you want. Depends on how bad growth is in your area. Eventually, you need to haul the boat and can then determine exactly what is going on. Analyze the surface etc. I don't see it being the Washington yard's problem is they just did a quick sand and paint.
You need to determine if the previous coat is coming off, the underpaint or what.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 17:05   #36
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,248
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
No...I did not...and again...lets complete what I said... " varies from one guy to another. From excellent work to not very good"
So yes...no matter what race, the same is true. In that yard, the people who sand bottoms happen to be Hispanic. Most basketball players are black. Am I racist? A majority of clerical work is done by women. Is that sexist? Most boat owners are male...is that sexist?
Haha. Some people just don't want you to use an adjective to describe a person. Fat, skinny, beer-gut, tall, short, bald, wing-eared, hook nosed, brown, black, red-head, pretty, plain, curvy, etc.
If a policeman asks you to describe someone - don't - you might end up in court

IMO they are the ones who are over-sensitive/judgmental of race, colour, shape, weight, etc. and need to get over it.
__________________
DumnMad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2016, 18:35   #37
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Liefo,
A few comments:
1.) I'm a sucker for any boat named after the Norse god of sex and beauty.
2.) It looks like the original gelcoat in your pix unless it is Petit Vivid
white or a similar product
3.) My guess is that it is an adhesion problem caused by a lack of proper
pre-paint preparation
4.) The fix is to pull your boat, prime with Petit Tie coat primer and repaint
the spots. I just repaired two spots on my boat this Spring. The
last repair lasted 12 years.
5.) In a worst-case scenario, you'll have to pull your boat and repaint
6.) $2k to paint a bottom? It's not rocket science.
7.) There was a time in our country when it was not a punishable offense
to refer to people by their ethnicity--whether good or bad. Obviously,
the successive "sensitive generations" cannot bode any reference to
one's "race" or "ethnicity" without it having a pejorative connotation.
This, of course, is because we are all the same and there are no
personal or ethnic differences as published in most University Bible's
under the heading "Sociology 101." When you suffer under this
ideologic Marxism, you have not only lost your mind but have lost
your soul. But look how good we feel to support the Party Line!
Power to the People! Long live Comrade Stalin and Chairman Mao!
I wonder if I still have that red beret in my closet . . . however, it
was used for pursuing Grouse and Woodcock with no political intent.
Good luck and safe sailing,
Captain Rognvald--lover of Freya and illicit Viking.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 09:36   #38
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
So yes...no matter what race, the same is true.
If the race of the workers is not an issue, why repeatedly mention that they were hispanic?

I'll tell you why- because on some level, to you, their race is an issue.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 09:38   #39
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
You can go the summer without bottom paint if you want.
OMG- worst advice ever.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 16:40   #40
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Boat: Irwin Citation 34
Posts: 131
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

suggest you peel a piece of paint and have it analysed to determine just what peeled, the paint or the barrier coat. Analysis can determine that then you will be able to determine what to do.
__________________
Captndave1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 17:46   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
OMG- worst advice ever.
With or without paint, many places it's not going to be clean anyway ...unless you hire a diver. If it worked .....divers like you would have nothing to do!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 18:41   #42
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
With or without paint, many places it's not going to be clean anyway ...unless you hire a diver. If it worked .....divers like you would have nothing to do!
Anti fouling paint does not eliminate fouling altogether, it merely retards it. How effectively it does that is largely predicated upon the fouling conditions it is used in. Overall however, it is not reasonable to expect a bottom to stay clean (noting that one man's "clean" is another man's undersea garden) even with anti fouling paint on it. To advise someone who keeps his boat in San Francisco Bay that he would be fine without any anti fouling paint at all is to completely misjudge the fairly gnarly fouling conditions we experience here.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 18:55   #43
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Anti fouling paint does not eliminate fouling altogether, it merely retards it. How effectively it does that is largely predicated upon the fouling conditions it is used in. Overall however, it is not reasonable to expect a bottom to stay clean (noting that one man's "clean" is another man's undersea garden) even with anti fouling paint on it. To advise someone who keeps his boat in San Francisco Bay that he would be fine without any anti fouling paint at all is to completely misjudge the fairly gnarly fouling conditions we experience here.
Ok I see. So your advice to haul it, spend $1500-$5000+ now at the start of the sailing season, and who knows how long depending on what's going on, with a new boat, rather than maybe have it cleaned a couple times. I get it. Brilliant!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 19:19   #44
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Ok I see. So your advice to haul it, spend $1500-$5000+ now at the start of the sailing season, and who knows how long depending on what's going on, with a new boat, rather than maybe have it cleaned a couple times. I get it. Brilliant!
I didn't advise the OP to haul now and you know it. What I did was to simply refute a fairly ridiculous statement you made.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2016, 20:07   #45
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Whangarei
Boat: Bavaria 38 Cruiser, 12meters, 2004
Posts: 109
Re: New bottom paint falling off in patches

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
If the race of the workers is not an issue, why repeatedly mention that they were hispanic?

I'll tell you why- because on some level, to you, their race is an issue.
Obviously stereotyping is as wrong as racism. One cannot be either blameworthy or praiseworthy on the basis of race since one cannot help but be whatever race a person is born into.

But there is another side of this. People are born into cultures as well as race and the boundaries often coincide and overlap. Often there is a co-relation between general cultural atitudes over such things as a solid work ethic, honesty and integrity and a persons race. Which is why racism and other generalizations gain traction with unthinking people. It's just wrong to make this an issue of race. What may have more honesty attached is that because certain cultures have different value systems a claim can be made as a generalization which often is a reflection of truth. It's just wrong to attribute it to race. Hope this makes sense. It is a conflation of cultural attitudes to certain ethical criteria with race. In other words if we take a section of a population of one race and they are subjected to the same cultural pressures over generations that others may have been subjected to- for example- over generations of Western values- then they would undoubtedly have the same atitude (generally) towards things such as a solid work ethic.

Just as the peeling bottom paint on your boat is not strictly a reflection of a boats character, (being only skin deep) neither is skin colour automatically going to determine a persons work ethic. However, the racist gets his credibility from generalizations that show repetitive instances.

So if every boat coming out of a particular manufacturers yard had no original epoxy undercoat those boats would get a well deserved negative reputation for antifoul peeling. However any thinking person can see it is the result of the policies of the manufacturer not the boat. Just so, in the case of people who have a poor work ethic it is the result of those forces which have shaped their culture. Even so, we still hold the workman accountable in some way for their poor workmanship and can at least see why a person will attribute a case for a deficient attitude to work as being an issue of race. It is the lack of care in articulating the underlying causes that creates issues.

Then things get worse, because the race card can be used to shield from a just criticism. For instance if you cannot criticize the state of Israel for fear of being called "antisemitic" then they have effectively silenced what may be a genuine issue of justice. If I cannot criticize the religion of Islam without offending Muslims, then I have no effective way of criticizing any Muslim behaviour based on his beliefs. If that happens, then we can make no case for a universal morality. This is what political correctness and moral relativism get you to.
__________________

__________________
Kerry1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bottom paint, paint

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To Bottom Paint, or Not to Bottom Paint (or Just a Touch-Up) OrangeCrush Monohull Sailboats 40 28-03-2016 05:56
Bottom Paint over Bottom Paint Adrenaline Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 13-02-2016 14:05
New Bottom Paint Peeling off Old Paint catalina38 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 26-02-2013 14:02
falling off 30ft waves martinworswick General Sailing Forum 14 13-01-2009 08:00
Help - my paint is falling off ! Dave-Fethiye Construction, Maintenance & Refit 18 21-08-2007 03:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.