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Old 19-10-2006, 11:12   #1
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New boat

Greetings,
My new to me boat, a Vagabond Westwind 42, had a number of upgrades done on the boat by the previous owner and one of them was in the windlass-sampson post area. The boat is cutter ketch rigged and the inner jib was self tending with a boom sheeted to a track on the deck. For some reason the decision was made to delete the boom and run the jib loose footed and during the delivery from Fla. to Galveston I tried to rig and run the sail with the running gear the owner said he used for the sail. The sampson post now on the boat must be a little taller than the stock one that came with the boat because the pennant required for the foot of the sail to clear the post allows the head of the sail to hit the block and I can't tension the leech. The sheet angle is also inboard if I were to use the track and the sail has a dedicated winch which worked with the running gear for the boom but now would be awkward if I were to use sheet blocks on deck. I can have the sail cut to tension the leech but still have the sheeting problem to contend with. I think I need to return to the original set-up but I can't picture the gooseneck arrangement with the pennant and sampson post. I hope this description is understandable and any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 19-10-2006, 17:20   #2
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Originally Posted by stuffinbox
Greetings,
My new to me boat, a Vagabond Westwind 42, had a number of upgrades done on the boat by the previous owner and one of them was in the windlass-sampson post area. The boat is cutter ketch rigged and the inner jib was self tending with a boom sheeted to a track on the deck. For some reason the decision was made to delete the boom and run the jib loose footed and during the delivery from Fla. to Galveston I tried to rig and run the sail with the running gear the owner said he used for the sail. The sampson post now on the boat must be a little taller than the stock one that came with the boat because the pennant required for the foot of the sail to clear the post allows the head of the sail to hit the block and I can't tension the leech. The sheet angle is also inboard if I were to use the track and the sail has a dedicated winch which worked with the running gear for the boom but now would be awkward if I were to use sheet blocks on deck. I can have the sail cut to tension the leech but still have the sheeting problem to contend with. I think I need to return to the original set-up but I can't picture the gooseneck arrangement with the pennant and sampson post. I hope this description is understandable and any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm not sure I'm getting the problem with the samson post and the sail pennant. Would getting a slightly longer pennant made in order for the sail to clear the sampson post solve the problem? As far as junking the club for the staysail goes, I did the same thing when I put roller furling on my staysail. I had to install two new winches in order to maintain a fair lead from the sail to the winches. That may be something you'll have to do as well. Best of luck with whatever way you go.
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Old 19-10-2006, 18:48   #3
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My CSY 33 has a club foot on a traveler and my Gozzard has a traveler and a furler. They both try to do the same thing and the use of the staysail is a complex issue.

The details of your situation are not all that clear. How about you take a picture and post it to your gallery. Posting pictures to the gallery is a feature when you join Cruisers Forum. When we all can see it I'm sure you can get a lot of feedback.
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Old 25-10-2006, 05:51   #4
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Inner Jib

I did some boat browsing locally and found a Lord Nelson that had a similar set up on the inner jib. As it turns out the previous owner had done his homework when he opted to lose the club foot on the sail. I tried out the sail again and the sheeting angle is correct, when reaching I believe I'm getting the proper amount of twist on the jib, so the learning curve continues. I confused the issue with my last post and I hope my next question is easier to understand. I still need to lose some length on the pennant to allow for more tension but the sail has what appears to have a line laced on the lower 30% of the leech. The upper part of the sail has hanks that clip directly from the grommet to the stay but the hanks on the lower part of the sail are whipped to the line and the line is laced to the sail. If drawn down as a downhaul the sail shape is incorrect. If this is meant for reefing I would think there would be a second cringle to re assign the sheet so a panel could be taken out when reefed. I could use some help.
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Old 25-10-2006, 13:05   #5
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I think what you have is called a jack line. It's not for reefing. Reefing may not be an option for your setup. My CSY was only a 90 sq ft sail it has a jackline and hanked on sail with the club foot.
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Old 25-10-2006, 14:05   #6
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Jackline

Thanks Paul. So jackline it will be. Do you utilise this to adjust sail shape or is it a carry over from when the sail was club footed? I can picture it being used as a downhaul to the gooseneck. I was hoping that the genoa would be easier to get thru the slot with the jib up but I need to figure out how much to ease the sheet and how quickly to come about. For now the first mate is entertained at my having to go forward and hand it thru when we tack. The yankee is bagged and I like the performance of the genoa so I will try a few different things to see if I can save a few trips forward.
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Old 25-10-2006, 15:42   #7
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The jack line is just to guide the hanks and it should be installed by the sail maker as required. It should not be something you need to adjust. I never have seen the need.

Getting the sail through the slot is mostly something you get used to with timing. The good news is it really is the same timing you would do on any jib. With a sloop you can get away with a sloppy tack. When you back wind it properly and it will go. Being lucky still counts. I did install a tacking line on my last boat. What it is is a line the size of a furling line run though furling blocks next to the real furling blocks. I then attached a down haul of fixed length as far forward but aft of the furling hardware to an eye I had on the bow roller. I adjust the down haul so it puts the block as far forward with a fair lead to the clew. The tacking line goes through the block to the clew of the jib. When the knots of the sheets on the jib hang up on the inner forestay you can pull the tacking line to make the clew go forward and down thus becoming unstuck so the wind carries it through. This is not a free lunch however in that it becomes another line to get hung up on whatever you have on the foredeck. So you need to watch it as well as everything else for those few times when it is hung and it's not a fun day to go to the bow. It can cause a trip to the bow if you foul it but is can almost always unstick the clew so you can pull it clear.

Getting better with your tacks helps. Some of the big boats just plain can not tack without furling. I found light air was the worst. The tacking line is used less now than we used to, but still gets a tug once in a while. You can try that as it only costs a little to install.

Replacing the club foor with a roller is pretty nice but now we are talking some money. It just helps to play with the stay sail and see how you use it in places where it works best for your type of sailing. A big genoa with a stay sail won't add all that much. Most every one I know with one likes it if when it gets nasty. Yesterday we had our stay sail furled part way with a double reef in the main. Some of the biggest Chesapeake Bay chop I ever have been in with winds blowing 30 gusting to 40. The stay sail earned my respect. Rolling up a big genoa into a tiny sail really sucks.
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